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   ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:38 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

   i think the optimal amount of people being upset with you (in relation to your work) is non-zero

   if nobody gets upset about what you're doing, there is space to be more ambitious, and to push the boundaries of the status quo more

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:33 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Scherzog von Beast Oil

     @scherzog i call what i do "talking to people normally" and i find that it's surprisingly effective

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:33 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Scherzog von Beast Oil

     @scherzog it is particularly opposed to "helping", though it's a general description too

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     Scherzog von Beast Oil (scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:34 JST Scherzog von Beast Oil

     in reply to

     @whitequark Hmm, a "comforting silence" of sorts? That... does check out, yes.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:35 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Scherzog von Beast Oil

     @scherzog I find it that doing nothing (special) is very effective. survivors of neglect can tell either way

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:36 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Scherzog von Beast Oil

     @scherzog yes, that's my theory of it. which is really a good thing! learning is relatively speaking easy, and widely accessible, more so than drugs are for example

     (though the thing you need to learn, that someone genuinely gives a shit about you, is hard to learn if nobody around you actually does)

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     Scherzog von Beast Oil (scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:36 JST Scherzog von Beast Oil

     in reply to

     @whitequark mhm~ and even if they do, figuring out a working & "acceptable" way of conveying that is... a lot more complicated than it needs to be. At least for the "acceptable" part banishing doubts is usually workable, but even having been on both sides I still struggle guessing what would genuinely get through - to others and to myself alike.

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     Scherzog von Beast Oil (scherzog@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:37 JST Scherzog von Beast Oil

     in reply to

     @whitequark I vaguely remember reading that perceived rejection has been found to trigger the same physiological responses as physical pain. While that is fascinating in its own right, it suggests that RSD could be a matter of having a skewed perception of what counts as rejection (and thus causes pain), which would definitely be a learned thing.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:38 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     i also, unsurprisingly for those who know me, really dislike conflict avoidance as a basis for personal or professional relationships

     all it does is kicks the can of worms down the road, where it has an opportunty to fester and result in a much worse, now inevitably catastrophic conflict

     i've seen this play out over and over during my career thus far and i absolutely refuse to participate. to the extent i did (and i did!) it was awful

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 16-Apr-2025 22:21:38 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     i actually find it that it hurts quite a bit when people are upset at me, whichever the reason! i think it feels similarly to how others describe "rejection sensitive dysphoria"

     i don't really have much of a choice; being known by as many others as i am makes it an inevitability that someone, somewhere, will be upset at me

     facing this, i had to learn how to tolerate it, and also decided that minimizing it above all else is a really bad strategy for existence

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:08 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex I'm all for doing whichever drugs you need (and not restricted by whatever a psych thinks makes sense); I just refuse to cede conceptual ground to doctors, even if I'll not tell them that

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:10 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex I don't think medicalizing it does anything useful, you just cede agency to cops in white

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     yopp (alex@feed.yopp.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:10 JST yopp

     in reply to

     @whitequark for me it at least feels like agency: I can stop and process why it hurts and then I can decide either to be angry, to give zero fucks or to be hurt. But to unlock zero fucks option first I had to complete The Quest Of Finding Appropriate Drug Cocktail to stop living in constant anxiety (and psychiatrist who *belive* in adult ADHD ffs). As always anger is free

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:12 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     (side note: i'm not sure that RSD is a "disorder" or even a "condition" so much as a result of accurately learning that your worth is entirely determined by some one person's volatile emotional state, and then applying that as a generalized principle)

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     yopp (alex@feed.yopp.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:12 JST yopp

     in reply to

     @whitequark RSD is a friend of my ADHD. My therapist told me that you can use same rule as with an anxiety: it’s okay to be hurt sometimes with a clear reason why. Like if you made an effort to make a present for someone and they instead of being happy where rude or angry at you. but if it constantly hurts, especially if you are feeling guilty of person being upset on you, it’s not normal and it’s an disorder. in many cases it caused by parents giving no shit about your emotions in early childhood. Who would have thought that right

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     yopp (alex@feed.yopp.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:23 JST yopp

     in reply to

     @whitequark it’s utterly disgusting and a bit sad that when you are disabled on top of other things to get better you have to fight/hack/neglect the system that was supposed to help you

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:24 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex we had to figure out almost everything ourselves, so... clearly that is one option available (then you do a parallel construction for the doctors)

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:24 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex like, my position is that who gives a shit if it's a disorder or not or if you have a diagnosis or not? if something's making your life hard, fix it. if doctors are a problem, lie to them (not like they wouldn't) and/or find different doctors

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     yopp (alex@feed.yopp.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:25 JST yopp

     in reply to

     @whitequark yeah, it’s my previous country as well. at that time there were like 4 psychiatrists in the whole country who treated adult adhd. I had my share of unuseful and even harmful solutions and trauma along the way

     But do you see another way around?

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:26 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex I described it as medicalization since in cases like this the treatment is based on first being classified by the medical system (which was prejudiced against you) and then processed by it. while there's nothing wrong with taking advantage of it I don't think it should or even can be the only or primary means of problem solving

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:26 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • yopp

     @alex you needed to be put in a box so eventually you got put in a box, and before that you didn't get much in useful solutions

     that's not a great system! the previous country where i live does not recognize adult ADHD or treat any ADHD with stimulants. what next?

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     yopp (alex@feed.yopp.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Apr-2025 09:44:27 JST yopp

     in reply to

     @whitequark interesting! where is conceptual ground for you in this? I see this more like being given a tool that I can decide to use or not. akin to dressing the wound or knitting the sweater