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1. Embed this notice
   screwlisp (screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2025 21:48:09 JST screwlisp

   • Ramin Honary

   @slgr
   I read these, and I mean, the author mostly has CLIM jealousy. "Why is no-one intuitively thread-safe with enhanced message (let's say command) passing", CLIM, why does no-one generate GUIs intuitively (CLIM). Then the author lists a bunch of examples of how nothing like CLIM existed in the past, all of which were younger than CLIM.

   I mean, it took me a long time and other people a lot of effort to get me to realise #McCLIM exists myself and its antecedents a long time.
   @ramin_hal9001

   • Embed this notice
     Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2025 21:48:05 JST Ramin Honary

     in reply to

     • Daniel Kochmański

     I’m planning to put scheme as an optional runtime in ecl

     @jackdaniel implementing Scheme in Common Lisp sounds like a really cool idea! Will it comply with the R7RS standard? If it does, then I can easily port my Emacs clone to ECL Scheme.

     One goal of my project is portability across multiple Scheme implementations. The problem with the GUI is that I need a high-level interface written in Scheme that makes calls to lower-level platform-specific GUI library calls. If I had a MOP implementation that was written in fully-standards-compilant R7RS Scheme and CLIM implemented on top of that, it would work on other platforms that did not provide a MOP or CLIM. When porting it to ECL, I could just leave-out these high-level libraries and allow programmers to use the underlying ECL CLIM libraries directly.

     @screwtape @slgr

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Kochmański (jackdaniel@functional.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2025 21:48:06 JST Daniel Kochmański

     in reply to

     • Ramin Honary

     @ramin_hal9001 @screwtape @slgr

     I'm planning to put scheme as an optional runtime in ecl, if that succeeds then using directly McCLIM from scheme will be feasible. Just saying.

     Alfred M. Szmidt repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Ramin Honary (ramin_hal9001@fe.disroot.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2025 21:48:08 JST Ramin Honary

     in reply to

     @screwtape I wish there was a port of CLIM for Scheme that I could use for my Emacs clone, but I don’t know if any of the Scheme implementations of the Meta Object Protocol (MOP) are comprehensive enough to support CLIM. The same is true of the Emacs MOP, which is some combination of cl-lib and EIEIO, I don’t think you could implement CLIM with just that.

     Also, every Scheme MOP is platform-specific. GOOPS is only for Guile, COOPS is only for Chicken, SOS Is only for MIT Scheme.

     The Racket GUI library is quite good, but it relies too heavily on Racket’s macro system to make it very portable to other Schemes.

     For myself, I was thinking of rewriting a lightweight JavaScript React-like framework called Van.js to Scheme and use it to implement a higher-level interface around an existing GUI framework like Gtk. The nice thing about Gtk is that the FFI bindings are automated throught GObject Introspection, and it has been ported to all major operating systems.

     But I think a better long-term solution for my Emacs clone would just be to implement the full MOP and then CLIM in Scheme.

     @slgr

   • Embed this notice
     screwlisp (screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2025 21:48:09 JST screwlisp

     in reply to

     • Ramin Honary

     @slgr
     Oh side note, the author coins the words [complete] programming system for emacs, but to my knowledge this phrase was common in the lisp community basically always (often refering to lisp+emacs+etc)
     @ramin_hal9001