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1. Embed this notice
   Chris (nightclaw@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 04:09:07 JST Chris

   • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:

   @reiver where is this happening?

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 04:09:07 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:

     @nightclaw @reiver Every Fediverse project that gets announced that has any sort of discovery features gets replies of harassment and threats to shut it down.

     This has happened infamously to BridgyFed which caused the dev to make it "opt-in" only, which is why it's so useless right now. Then, FediOnFire which was just an aggregated public timeline made by Roni. And now more recently, Fedicate which was harassed and threatened till they changed the entire purpose of the project.

   • Embed this notice
     Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse (lpwaterhouse@ioc.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 15:51:02 JST Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw @reiver To me there's a stark difference between not wanting to be seen by *people* vs. by *software*. I know there is no way to distinguish those, but my impression is that those reacting strongly are riling almost exclusively against the latter, while many of those appalled by these protests seem to focus on the former. Both sides not talking to each other *clearly*, which makes the positions *seem* more irreconsilable...

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 15:51:02 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     @lpwaterhouse @nightclaw @reiver there's 15 million people here, I cannot find people without software, so I don't think theres too much difference to be discerned here.

   • Embed this notice
     Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse (lpwaterhouse@ioc.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 16:18:16 JST Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw @reiver Factually, yes, but *emotionally* there's a huge difference for many people. Being aware of that and taking it into account when responding is what I'm advocating for.

     BeAware repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 16:18:16 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     @lpwaterhouse @nightclaw @reiver sure...but emotions and facts don't mix here unfortunately. I fail to see how there can be a sufficient solution to satisfy those people beyond the measures that's already in place for every user to protect themselves.🤷♂️

     I can emotionally want to be the richest man in the world, that doesn't mean it can realistically happen.

   • Embed this notice
     Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse (lpwaterhouse@ioc.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 17:02:53 JST Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw @reiver An typical example of ehat *can* be done would be `robots.txt` for the web. No, it will not stop anything actively malicious, since it is purely passive, but it will be respected by bots that want to be seen as "behaving themselves", which is already a significant portion and thus eases *some* emotional pain.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 17:02:53 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     @lpwaterhouse @nightclaw @reiver they lose my respect and empathy when they harass and threaten.

     Empathy goes both ways.

     Ryan, the BridgyFed dev was harassed SO bad. It's ridiculous.

     There were many options that were discussed back then. Including letting certain people on Fedi side have it opt-out and the Bluesky side be opt-out completely.

     Nothing except completely opt-out on both sides was good enough.

     You can't reason with the unreasonable.

   • Embed this notice
     Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse (lpwaterhouse@ioc.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 17:02:54 JST Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw @reiver No, but you *can* mame an effort to be kind to people with an emotional need, and actively look for things that *can* be changed (and there usually *are*). As opposed to reacting harshly in a "It's a fact, deal with it" way. The latter will not change anyone's view, it'll just escalate things; The former opens a door to negotiations (and explanations), because the recipients feel taken *seriously*.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 19:31:33 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Chewie

     @chewie @nightclaw @reiver well, it wouldn't be a closed platform if it was opt-out like the rest of ActivityPub. It'd just be another instance, albeit the largest, but it would have worked the exact same way as every other instance already does.🤷♂️

   • Embed this notice
     Chewie (chewie@mammut.gogreenit.net)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2025 19:31:35 JST Chewie

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw @reiver

     Personally, I had a problem with BridgyFed as I didn't want my content to go into a closed system.
     I totally understand that interfaces to other systems may boost mastodon users and increase reach, but I'm not bothered about that.

     I thought FediOnFire was a nice idea tho 😞

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 03:07:50 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Infinity Counter 🟦

     @JustTooOdd @reiver @nightclaw nope, it's related cause the devs that were getting harassed were building discovery tools. Tools that would make it easier to find people and servers that interest you.

     They feel it's violating their "privacy" on a completely open and public by default platform.🤦♂️

   • Embed this notice
     @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (reiver@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 03:07:51 JST @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:

     in reply to

     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nightclaw

     Yeah, the bullying targeting Fediverse developers bothers me.

     I don't think it is acceptable.

   • Embed this notice
     Infinity Counter 🟦 (justtooodd@lor.sh)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 03:07:51 JST Infinity Counter 🟦

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @reiver @BeAware @nightclaw That's a different issue than the question being asked, right?

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 03:33:35 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Infinity Counter 🟦

     @JustTooOdd @reiver @nightclaw cause it's not about the reaction to the tools, it's about the tools themselves. If they didn't say a reason why they were harassing the devs, we probably wouldn't be here.

   • Embed this notice
     Infinity Counter 🟦 (justtooodd@lor.sh)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 03:33:36 JST Infinity Counter 🟦

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @reiver @nightclaw The question above is "do you want to be found?", not "do you want developers to be harassed?" Two different questions.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 04:05:56 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • Infinity Counter 🟦

     @JustTooOdd @reiver @nightclaw because if the tools for discovery weren't made, the developers wouldn't be harassed.

     Again, this isn't about the harassment, but about if MOST of Fedi want what they want. Which is obviously not the case.

   • Embed this notice
     Infinity Counter 🟦 (justtooodd@lor.sh)'s status on Wednesday, 12-Feb-2025 04:05:57 JST Infinity Counter 🟦

     in reply to

     • @reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:
     • BeAware

     @BeAware @reiver @nightclaw Yet, the question says nothing about harassing developers. Looks intentionally misleading. Doesn't well represent the actual problem. Seems like a strawman. Perhaps it's venting. Tends to make me question motives rather than convince me.