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   Mike Rockwell (mike@libertynode.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Feb-2025 23:37:31 JST Mike Rockwell

   What if the funding for the department of education was redirected to parents that homeschool?

   • Embed this notice
     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Monday, 03-Feb-2025 23:37:30 JST Robert James

     in reply to
     @mike it would mean federal government oversight of homeschooling. No thank you!
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:11 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @mike @wulfhart I didn't say it was a welfare program and my kids are homeschooled. As a Libertarian I want to shrink the size and scope of government in every way. One way to prevent that is to get private organizations used to receiving government funding. In addition, in the USA a good number of homeschoolers utilize a Christian curriculum so that opens up to more potential issues regarding previous court rules related to the first amendments establishment of religion clause.
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     Mike Rockwell (mike@libertynode.net)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:13 JST Mike Rockwell

     in reply to

     • Robert James
     • Wulfhart

     @wulfhart @fulner why would you consider federal funds to home schoolers a welfare program, but choosing to send your child to a charter school using state funds isn’t?

     Just trying to get a clear picture of your thoughts on the matter?

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     Wulfhart (wulfhart@theres.life)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:14 JST Wulfhart

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @mike @fulner

     My local district has this in the form of charter schools. State funding goes to whichever school is attended, whether charter or public.
     Starting at age 16, students can attend community college with the state funds, this applies to homeschoolers as well. I am a big fan.

     But, the charter schools have a wait list that is seemingly years long. Public schools here are terrible. Ranked bottom 5% in the country. So we do a home school coop, until they can go to college.

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     Mike Rockwell (mike@libertynode.net)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:15 JST Mike Rockwell

     in reply to

     • Robert James
     • Wulfhart

     @wulfhart @fulner what do you think about voucher systems where state education funding can move with the student? So each child gets a voucher in the state that can be used to fund their local public school or can be used to cover the cost of a private school of the parents’ choice?

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     Wulfhart (wulfhart@theres.life)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:16 JST Wulfhart

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @mike @fulner
     Setting up a homeschool welfare system would require regulatory overreach (as fulner mentioned) and still be ripe for fraud.

     The biggest obstacle to homeschooling is that both parents have to work outside the home. Throwing even a few thousand dollars at parents won't help very much with that.

     If money ends up being deallocated from the Dep of Edu, I imagine it is best to just decrease the national deficit/debt by not borrowing that money in the first place.

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     Mike Rockwell (mike@libertynode.net)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:39:17 JST Mike Rockwell

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @fulner I thought about that afterward. I wouldn’t want it to become a way for the federal government to push certain ideologies. There would have to be safeguards in place to prevent the money being tied to certain types of curriculum. I’m not sure how that could be done, though.

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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:40:58 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Robert James
     • Wulfhart
     @mike @wulfhart here in Michigan we have great homeschool standards, and by that I say we have 0. We don't even have to inform the state that we are homeschooling and if anyone has a problem the burden is on them to prove parents are not educationg their children. The politicians in Lansing are trying to change that so we are fighting hard to keep the status quoe on that front, getting the feds involved sure isnt't going to help.
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:43:03 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Robert James
     • Wulfhart
     @mike @wulfhart I would be OK with a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for homeschoolers who chose to take advantage of such, though the goal should be a complete separation of school and state.
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:44:18 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @mike @wulfhart vouchers are yet another way to get the government involved in places it does not belong. Half-measures avail us nothing.
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:50:53 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @wulfhart @mike
     
     >The biggest obstacle to homeschooling is that both parents have to work outside the home.
     
     This is only an issue if you let it be an issue. If you want to homeschool bad enough, you'll find a way, including working split shifts, sharing homeschooling duties with other families, or changing your living conditions such that we celebrate multigenerational households, just to name a few.
     
     The primary reason public schools were invited was so that capitalists could increase their workforce by removing some time constraints from parents, and many parents still prefer such. I know many people honestly believe they don't have a choice, but really its just that other things, living on your own, living in a city you like, etc. are more valuable to them. This is even more so when your kids are matured enough that they don't need constat supervision. Though some people would call that kind of education unschooling rather than homeschooling. I think there is value in distinguishing such among those who choose to keep their kids out of government schools, but it is way too confusing and often enraging to the general public
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:53:13 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Robert James
     • Wulfhart
     @wulfhart @mike I have known multiple families who were surprised how little a second income was missed particularly when expenses where cut like selling the second car, less running around from work to home to school resulting in fewer meals need to be purchased at restaurants, etc.
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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:53:59 JST Robert James

     in reply to
     @mike I realized that after I started typing, but I already had bee in my bonnent and wanted to get on my soapbox anyway. ;-)
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     Mike Rockwell (mike@libertynode.net)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 05:54:00 JST Mike Rockwell

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @fulner my apologies, that reply was intended just for the other person tagged. I forgot to remove your username from my message. ✌️

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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 06:47:24 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @wulfhart @mike welfare is a good thing. Its caring for those less fortunate. As the church one of our biggest failures has been allowing the government to take over our responsibility of being the primary provider of welfare.
     
     That being said the amount of fraud in food stamps is so minimal that it actually costs the government more money enforcing it than they did even with that. The utility of a gift is always greatest when the receiver rather than the giver makes that decision. I don't think government welfare should exist, but still, I think too many people make a big deal about the waste of these programs, while not giving 2 shakes about the waste of military budget which is exponentially larger, and that's before you even take into the consideration of the morality of helping people vs. that of killing people.
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     Wulfhart (wulfhart@theres.life)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 06:47:25 JST Wulfhart

     in reply to

     @mike

     Great question.
     I consider them all to be "welfare" defined as "aid given by the government." In one case it is education, the other finances for education.
     
     I have no moral objection to either, just practical objections.

     I think that offering money for a specific use without enforcing that specific use will lead to fraud and abuse.
     E.G. Food stamps. Back when it was actual stamps/coupons, people would stand outside the store in my town and offer to trade their family's food stamps for cash, cigarettes, or liquor. Now it's a debit card with restrictions, because of that abuse.

     What about enforcing the specified use on individuals? It would require giving up privacy and freedom in curriculum choice.
     I now have to prove to the state (or feds) that my expenses were on curriculum, I really did buy these items for school, I really did spend the required 180 days teaching, etc.

     The charter schools are audited financially and academically by the state, I don't want that on an individual level.
     I also would rather not have the parents who once traded their children's food stamps for cash to also trade their children's education for cash.

     If there was a way to prevent the inevitable abuse at the expense of taxpayer money and worse children's education, while not infringing on my privacy and curriculum choice, I would consider a voucher for individual homeschoolers. At the federal level, I don't see any hope of this and at the state level it is unlikely.

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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 06:48:21 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @wulfhart no need to apologize. These are the discussion I have missed when giving up Facebook for the 'verse.
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     Wulfhart (wulfhart@theres.life)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Feb-2025 06:48:22 JST Wulfhart

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @fulner my apologies for roping you into the discussion with the reply. If there is one thing to get a homeschooler on a soapbox, it's discussing educational politics.

     Heck, I broke my political speech moratorium for this conversation. Lol

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     Wulfhart (wulfhart@theres.life)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 00:54:19 JST Wulfhart

     in reply to

     • Robert James

     @fulner

     I found the article confirming your stat of the gov pays more to enforce than it loses. Apparently, it is per $1 stolen it costs the Gov $3.72 in investigation. Also 20% of the fraud is benefit trafficking, 31% involve identity theft.

     Given that in 2016 alone there was $592 million in SNAP fraud. If that ratio holds $1.5 billion in investigation costs. Sound like the US gov to me. Lol

     Also, I didn't realize how much fraud there was. This makes me think, it's not the guy selling his food stamps outside the Kroger. It has organized crime involved.

     Edit: after thought, it probably works same way as the IRS scam, just have a script submit requests for benefits for random people in data dumps. Even if only a fraction of requests make it through. Do it for both SNAP and state benefits. That's easily millions in defrauded benefits.

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     Robert James (fulner@social.mojo.fyi)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 00:56:00 JST Robert James

     in reply to

     • Wulfhart
     @wulfhart do you have a link to that article handy by chance?