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  1. Embed this notice
    Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 20:53:52 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody

    #LLM Taken Down Following Legal Pressure from Anti-Piracy Group - https://torrentfreak.com/llm-taken-down-following-legal-pressure-from-anti-piracy-group-250128/ absurd; it's just knowledge

    In conversation about 4 months ago from mastodon.social permalink

    Attachments

    1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: torrentfreak.com
      LLM Taken Down Following Legal Pressure from Anti-Piracy Group * TorrentFreak
      from @torrentfreak
      Dutch anti-piracy group BREIN takes credit for forcing the popular 'GEITje' LLM offline, which in part was trained on copyrighted texts.
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 21:08:33 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to

      @glynmoody It's copyright violation on a massive scale, is what it is, and the anti-piracy group is in the right in this case. It's possible to train LLMs legally: but the techbro culture of "move fast and break things" includes "laws" in things they think it's okay to break.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 22:00:16 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross I'm afraid I don't agree. extracting patterns from any copyright material isn't an infringement, and claiming it is, is a constraint on sharing knowledge, and just sets up publishers as gatekeepers

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
      Alexandre Oliva likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      Michael Kohne (mhkohne@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:15:59 JST Michael Kohne Michael Kohne
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @glynmoody @cstross Given that the AIs have repeatedly been made to cough up source material, I'd say they aren't extracting patterns, but rather incorporating the original material whole hog.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:37:38 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to

      @glynmoody It's not just extracting patterns: the entire content is present and can be regurgitated/reconstructed.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:41:48 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross *if* the entire book is regurgitated, then you can plausibly claim infringement for that particular output; but otherwise it's just mathematical weights based on millions of books - that's different.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:43:46 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Michael Kohne
      • Charlie Stross

      @mhkohne they are extracting patterns, but you can get them to reconstruct input if you try; arguably that is the problem, not the analysis @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:45:05 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to

      @glynmoody Nope: in UK copyright law "fair dealing" covers SHORT extracts of up to about 20 words. Emit more than that? The LLM is in breach of the law.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
      Glyn Moody repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:45:43 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Don Marti
      • Charlie Stross
      • Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕

      @dmarti thus guaranteeing that EU AI is not as good as US/Chinese AI and that EU viewpoints are underrepresented in the weightings... @fabiocosta0305 @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Don Marti (dmarti@federate.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:45:45 JST Don Marti Don Marti
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕

      @fabiocosta0305 @glynmoody @cstross The fair use issue in the USA still isn't decided. In the EU, though, AI can be trained on copyrighted works unless the copyright holder "expressly reserves" -- which all the mainstream publishing companies, and most independent authors, have been doing

      https://cultureactioneurope.org/news/european-parliament-adopts-the-ai-act/

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕ (fabiocosta0305@ursal.zone)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:45:46 JST Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕ Fábio Costa 🐇🕐🎩☕
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @glynmoody @cstross AFAIK, training AI doesn't fall on the criteria for Fair Use, UNLESS you can build an AI to create parodies or critics on those stuff

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:46:30 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross which confirms that copyright law is out of touch with today's digital realities...

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:56:34 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Richard Ayres

      @rayres definitely my approach when I'm in court... @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
      Charlie Stross repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      Richard Ayres (rayres@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 00:56:35 JST Richard Ayres Richard Ayres
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @glynmoody @cstross "I'm sorry m'lud, you're just out of date with today's realities."

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 01:15:35 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Richard Ayres

      @rayres indeed @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Richard Ayres (rayres@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 01:15:36 JST Richard Ayres Richard Ayres
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @glynmoody @cstross mind you, today's realities probably include the law bending over backwards to accommodate billionaires. I wonder if this Dutch LLM is owned by a billi... "The LLM developers lack the funds to litigate the matter" so that's that then

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      jer (jerrej@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 01:37:50 JST jer jer
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @glynmoody @cstross

      The red traffic light my lorry is thundering steadily and progressively towards is out of touch with today's #ai #hallucinations.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      The Penguin of Evil (etchedpixels@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 01:56:30 JST The Penguin of Evil The Penguin of Evil
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross @glynmoody and we all know UK fair dealing fairly broken too. There's a line somewhere between "I stole your book" and "I learned to write reading your book". It's incredibly murky even in law for humans and is going to need some case-law and other stuff to untangle at all let alone sanely.
      Other bits are really bad LLM design that need fixing. An LLM shouldn't regurgitate half a book to answer a question it should tell you what book to read because it knows it's using a lot of material

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 02:11:57 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Simply Simon
      • Richard Ayres

      @Salty so how good does it have to be acceptable for you? @rayres @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Simply Simon (salty@mastodon.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 02:11:58 JST Simply Simon Simply Simon
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Richard Ayres

      @glynmoody @rayres @cstross You could fairly accuse me of hypocrisy but I see a human making fair use of an artist's content to produce new art quite differently from an LLM using it to produce garbage. If I were an artist and my art inspired new art, I would be honoured. The garbage an LLM vomits out... not so much.

      I don't think LLMs should be able to claim fair use. What they do is not what the point of fair use is all about.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Glyn Moody (glynmoody@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 02:19:50 JST Glyn Moody Glyn Moody
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Simply Simon
      • Richard Ayres

      @Salty I think many human artists fail that test... @rayres @cstross

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Simply Simon (salty@mastodon.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Jan-2025 02:19:51 JST Simply Simon Simply Simon
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Richard Ayres

      @glynmoody @rayres @cstross When the AGI can coherently explain their own work in the same way a human artist does. Otherwise, it’s just random noise.

      In conversation about 4 months ago permalink

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