Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:51 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

   • raboof

   @raboof Wow, thanks for that.

   • Embed this notice
     Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:41 JST Janneke

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen
     • Yann Büchau :nixos:

     @publicvoit @nobodyinperson @AngryAnt @raboof
     Wow that's vague.

     Remember, bugs (i.e..sensible bug reports) are hugs!

   • Embed this notice
     Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:42 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen
     • Yann Büchau :nixos:

     @nobodyinperson @AngryAnt @raboof My problem is that I thought that NixOS is a solution to some issues I had with other Linux distros. That failed and I got additional issues as well.

     When I have to setup my system, NixOS (and Nix) will be a part of my past.

   • Embed this notice
     Yann Büchau :nixos: (nobodyinperson@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:43 JST Yann Büchau :nixos:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     @publicvoit @AngryAnt @raboof Same for NixOS. If a venv does the job for you, use my linked fhs command as the one thing to execute before doing anything Python, then do whatever venv stuff you need to do. If you don't need external system dependencies, do you really need nix?

   • Embed this notice
     Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:44 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen
     • Yann Büchau :nixos:

     @nobodyinperson @AngryAnt @raboof On any other OS I did never have to use something more complicated than a venv. 😉

   • Embed this notice
     Yann Büchau :nixos: (nobodyinperson@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:45 JST Yann Büchau :nixos:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     @publicvoit @AngryAnt @raboof Well if you need any kind of dependency, a simple `python ./myscript.py` won't work on any distribution. Poetry or uv can ease that step of specifying and fetching dependencies, and work identically across distros. The only difference on #NixOS is that you will need to run everything from within an fhsUserEnv, e.g. execute my `fhs` command here before:

     https://gitlab.com/nobodyinperson/nixconfig/-/blob/main/modules/fhs.nix?ref_type=heads

     This is how I do it.

   • Embed this notice
     Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:46 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     @AngryAnt @raboof Frankly, I haven't even looked at this #NixOS feature.

     My experience so far which doesn't necessarily contradict your comment: if something is working, its "source" looks clean and you can reproduce it a number of times. 👍

     However to get to that point in the first place, I had to bump into too many issues, rely on multiple experts on the Internet to help me with my specific issue until it somehow worked and I did not even understand all the mistakes I did which is a pity with respect to learning.

     My most significant example: simply invoking a local #Python script.

     You could read about the very last mile of that journey here: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nix-shell-isnt-executing-its-python-poetry-command-and-doesnt-exit/58452

     Note that it took me half a year, at least six iterations of approaches including switching to poetry, various variations of nix-shells/shellscript combinations and so forth.

     And this all for a task that is easy as "python3 ./myscript.py" on all(!) other operating systems.

     Hardly a motivation for me for NixOS.

   • Embed this notice
     Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen (angryant@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:47 JST Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     in reply to

     • raboof

     @publicvoit @raboof Personally I had that same impression prior to taking on containers, but ended up concluding that this had been me over-estimating complexity.

     It really is one of those areas where NixOS makes doing something complicated easy vs. other distros.

   • Embed this notice
     Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:48 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     @AngryAnt @raboof I can relate to that but this is only achievable with a high level of Nix knowledge.

     So at that stage of Nix(OS), it is no option to me. I failed with much simpler tasks already. 😔

   • Embed this notice
     Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen (angryant@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:49 JST Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     in reply to

     • raboof

     @publicvoit @raboof Personally I like to run my services in NixOS containers with private networking - often with their own network interface passed through.

   • Embed this notice
     Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen (angryant@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:14:50 JST Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen

     in reply to

     • raboof

     @publicvoit @raboof Mitigations to avoid that initial foothold include:
     - Having most systemd services configured via NixOS options run with DynamicUser set, enabling lots of system isolation: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/635027/systemd-dynamicuser-vs-user#635036
     - The nature & implementation of the nix store precludes whole classes of common exploits like library/dll injection and malicious patching.
     - You can comparatively easily add further isoation to potential entry points by declaring them in NixOS containers.

   • Embed this notice
     Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:40:31 JST Janneke

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen
     • Yann Büchau :nixos:

     @publicvoit @nobodyinperson @AngryAnt @raboof

     You count complaining on social media as a bug report?

   • Embed this notice
     Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode: (publicvoit@graz.social)'s status on Monday, 20-Jan-2025 00:40:32 JST Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:

     in reply to

     • raboof
     • Janneke
     • Emil "AngryAnt" Johansen
     • Yann Büchau :nixos:

     @janneke @nobodyinperson @AngryAnt @raboof On, I have plenty messages on that: my downsides start with: https://graz.social/@publicvoit/112197919942153866

     Janneke repeated this.