Molly White
The TikTok ban, the Musk Twitter takeover, the Facebook moderation policy changes, the Republicans’ rapidly intensifying crackdowns on speech... let these be the proof you needed to move anything you care about online to a space you control.
Digital sovereignty is more important than ever.
Tamsyn Ulthara 🏳️⚧️⛧🎃🐈⬛
@molly0xfff And for anything you're not self-hosting, you need to get it out of the United States. *Now.*
Molly White
@Sibshops nowhere in this post am I arguing that people should look to TikTok (or Twitter or Facebook) for digital sovereignty
Sibshops
@molly0xfff Tiktok was also controlling the online space. They got caught suppressing LGBTQ content, or any content they didn't like as well as boosting any message that fits their own agenda. It wasn't an open or fair algorithm.
Infoseepage
@molly0xfff I thought I was safe with @protonprivacy in Switzerland, but then their CEO started praising Trump and spouting a bunch of alt-right stuff at people who called him on it on the official @protonprivacy account and then decided to put an 88 in his username...so guess not? Don't really like going back to the bad old days of running my own mailserver either, but I'm increasingly in a position of not knowing who is trustworthy.
Proton
We have apologized and retracted the statement, and changed internal processes to avoid this.
We can assure you that as a Swiss organization, Proton is not controlled by any individual, but by the board of our non-profit foundation, which has neutrality in its governing principles.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff What percentage of overall shares does the Proton Foundation control? Both Andy Yen and Dingchao Lu are on this board and AFAIK they're still major principal shareholders in Proton AG, giving them an outsized influence on the decision making of this 5 member board.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff Do Andy and Dingchao retain enough Proton AG shares between them to override board decisions if the other three members of the board vote against them and vote the foundation's shares in a way that Andy and Dingchao don't like? These are important questions and I haven't seen public transparency, just blanket assurances that the foundation is somehow a check on Proton AG, which it doesn't appear to have been in this case.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff I am well aware of the explanation Andy has provided. The number 88 is grossly offensive to a large percentage of western people, who are your principal customers. Switzerland is itself in the process of banning the display of this number as a primary neo-nazi hate symbol, something which has been highly public in the Swiss press this year.
Proton
@Infoseepage @molly0xfff As for the '88' in Andy's username: Andy has created this account a week ago and the reason it features 88 in binary is because it’s his birth year and a lucky number in Taiwan, where he is originally from. So, this is a very unfortunate coincidence.
Infoseepage
It may very soon be illegal in Switzerland for Andy to have that as his username, as the law broadly doesn't allow the display of hate symbols except for limited purposes like holocaust education.
Whatever his stated reasons for appending that number after a series of statements in which Andy used alt-right language like "triggered," there has not been an apology for the use of the number and his account using that number has not been renamed or deleted.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff I am deeply not okay with Proton or any principal figures involved in its governance making official statements of support of the Trump regime in any capacity. We know what Trump is and Europe has seen his ilk before. Complementing Nazis on their fine roadwork while they initiate an era of scapegoating and bigotry makes one a Nazi supporter. The same very much in my mind applies to the people who would make public shows of support to him now.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff The remedy I will accept at this point is the resignation our ousting of Andy Yen from his position at Proton AG and Proton Foundation. Anything less, given the egregious circumstance of Andy's statements and subsequent follow up "damage control" which only made my perception of the situation worse, I consider to be inadequate to restore any level of faith I may have. Baring that, I'll be taking my personal and MSP accounts to Fastmail or Tutanota later this week.
Proton
Hey, this is not how the Proton Foundation works.
The foundation is non-profit, and the shares are not owned by individuals. Instead, each foundation member has one vote.
More on the foundation here: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff You seem to be conspicuously not answering my question. Afaik, Proton AG remains a private company. We've been told that Proton Foundation, a separate entity has some control over Proton AG by virtue of controlling some shares, but I've never seen it stated what percentage of shares in Proton AG the Proton Foundation controls.
Reay
@Infoseepage @protonprivacy @molly0xfff I signed up for Tuta last night and will be shifting everything there away from Protonmail as quickly as possible.
I can't and won't abide by Yen doing this in the first place, then him blaming the readers for mistaking his words (I mean, are you kidding me?), and how it's all been handled since then, by him and evidently the company as well.
This isn't how you handle things, folks. As the mass exodus should demonstrate.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff If Andy+Dingchao together have more shares personally in Proton AG than the Proton Foundation's board controls, then it would seem to give them a de facto veto on board decisions in cases where the other three members of the Proton Foundation might disagree with them. Having Proton AG members serve on the foundation board seems like an inherent conflict of interest, and again, we have not been told what percentage interest Proton Foundation has in Proton AG.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff So far, the only statement I've seen can be interpreted as Proton Foundation being the single largest shareholder in Proton AG, but that doesn't necessarily imply a super-majority of shares or the ability to hold Proton AG in check in all cases.
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff And having Andy and Dingchao involved in the Foundation at all seems to undermine the Foundation's ability to serve as a check on Proton AG in circumstances where, in this case, Andy's behavior is highly suspect and causing a loss of trust in Proton and it's stated mission. That he hasn't resigned or been shown the door signals to me that the Foundation, as a mechanism to force Proton AG to behave in ways consistent with it's stated mission is ineffectual.
Infoseepage
@trebach @human3500 @protonprivacy @molly0xfff Cool, can he get a move on and delete the one with the hate symbol in the name and create a new one as AndyYenFormerProtonCEO? That's the action I'd like to see at this point.
Trebach
@human3500 @protonprivacy @Infoseepage @molly0xfff For Reddit, he can't. He has to create a new account
Human 3500
@protonprivacy His birth year is actually 1988. Why not change his username if he just created it a week ago? @Infoseepage @molly0xfff
Infoseepage
@protonprivacy @molly0xfff Noticed you still haven't responded to any of the questions/concerns I've stated as to the relationship between Proton Foundation and Proton AG and basic factual matters pertaining to governance. I'm assuming the Proton Foundation is just a fig leaf of notional accountability at this point since I have no evidence to the contrary.
Infoseepage
@nix @protonprivacy @molly0xfff Yup, we still haven't gotten a straightforward, direct answer as to how the foundation would hold Proton AG to account in such matters. They control some shares, is all we know, but 2/5 of the board are current Proton AG employees and that 2/5 may also carry individually more shares in Proton AG than the foundation. We don't know, because the share percentages have not been announced.
nix
@protonprivacy @Infoseepage @molly0xfff If the board is separate from Andy, why is this official account explaining or defending his personal decisions? This shows enmeshment that in practice makes me doubt the efficacy of official procedures in reducing any individual's influence.
Infoseepage
@nix @protonprivacy @molly0xfff Right now what I see is the Proton social accounts continuing to be used to defend the actions of a CEO whose actions are imo, not credibly defensible. A smarter company looking to preserve its customer based and the integrity of its stated values, would have cut him lose by now.
Marcos D. Alves
@Infoseepage @protonprivacy @molly0xfff At first I considered this demand as idiot; but now I agree with it. What made me change my mind? Elon Musk today! He presented himself as a nazi in front of the cameras, live, to the whole world. Andy Yen supporting anyone on Trump administration brings him closer to nazis.
Infoseepage
@leberschnitzel @protonprivacy @molly0xfff At this moment in time and coupled with his other speech and actions, I am not willing to give Andy the benefit of the doubt. It's a commonly recognized white supremacist hate symbol. Skinheads get it tattooed on their forehead for fuck's sake.
If, after being told that you continue to display it, then you are displaying alliance/alignment. Andy needs to be shown the door or I'll take my accounts elsewhere. There is no option three.
leberschnitzel :ha:
@protonprivacy @Infoseepage @molly0xfff while it may be a coincidence, the account being created as an reaction to what's been happening and being created for a person that says he's very privacy focused but CONTAINS HIS BIRTHDATE makes this an less believable coincidence. Even if it might be one. I would not care if it was for a different reason and for a different person, but just the combination of those two things really hurt your organization.
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