Christine Lemmer-Webber
"It's time to abandon the cargo cult metaphor" https://www.righto.com/2025/01/its-time-to-abandon-cargo-cult-metaphor.html
I already thought it was time to retire just because the way it was presented always felt... uncomfortable, to say the least. But this article presents a whole bunch of reasons.
Rich Felker
@cwebber I was so unsurprised when I found out Feynman's tall tales were basically the source of the whole racist/colonialist myth here, by chance, right after hearing a treatise on what bullshit he and the cult around him were.
Marsh Ray
@cwebber That was a great read.
I wish I could think of a good replacement metaphor for “imitation without true understanding that sometimes worked before”.
Rich Felker
@marshray @cwebber I had a thread a few weeks ago on this. Sadly no good replacements came up. Sometimes there isn't a good real world metaphor precisely because the bad one was falsified by a self-absorbed twat.
kuteboiCoder
@cwebber@social.coop
BVSED nip invaders. Gotta love those nips.
kuteboiCoder
@cwebber@social.coop
so sad. 😢
Rich Felker
@marshray @slotos @rootfake @GavinChait @cwebber I think the whole story is sus and intentionally attributes poor reasoning process where there's no evidence. Like, a more flattering explanation would be "making decoy drop spots trying to intercept cargo drops". Doesn't sound so "primitive"/stupid then.
slotos
@rootfake @GavinChait @dalias @marshray @cwebber Let’s reintroduce agglutination! “Wizardering” has a ring to it.
“-ard” suffix was supposed to be deprecating, e.g. drunkard. It fits “if I wave the wand a certain way and wear a conic hat, the lightning will move according to my will” mentality. It is also an example of itself - an agglutination lookalike pretending to make sense and maybe even succeeding.
PS: I should probably get more sleep.
Marsh Ray
@slotos @rootfake @GavinChait @dalias @cwebber Remember that the “cargo cult” of the metaphor were mostly operating rationally based on the information that they had available. They were simply missing key fundamentals of the theory, so their efforts couldn’t be more than superficial mimicry.
I think we can all sympathize with that.
rootfake
@GavinChait @dalias @marshray @cwebber maybe ritualistic or magical thinking? Superstitious programming might be a good term. I generally use "treating $thing like it's a magic spell" to describe this kind of mentality. If they do the right motions and say the right words, surely they'll get the result they want, even if they don't understand why it worked.
Gavin Chait;
Marsh Ray
@gregly @rootfake @GavinChait @dalias @cwebber The term “faith-based” is already in widespread use.
Rich Felker
@marshray @gregly @rootfake @GavinChait @cwebber Yes, with highly negative connotation, for good reason. So it seems like a decent fit.
His Holiness-Adjacent Gregly
@rootfake @GavinChait @dalias @marshray @cwebber After thinking about it a bit, I’d like to suggest “faith-based patterns” (or “faith-based coding/architecture/etc.”)
Rich Felker
@marshray @gregly @rootfake @GavinChait @cwebber "Faith based" is used mainly by fundamentalists trying to subvert secular public services, education, etc. with private ones that push sectarian agenda and discriminate in who they serve.
Considering the term harmful is not bigotry against religious communities but rejection of subjugation of secular government and society by theocrats.
Marsh Ray
@dalias @gregly @rootfake @GavinChait @cwebber If you’re that kind of bigot you might as well stick just with the original term.
Keira (She/Her)
@marshray @cwebber "received wisdom" it sometimes is used to suggest something is true, though, it only gets at the untested nature of the "wisdom".
I do have a better story example though. A cook who always cuts the end off the roast, says she does it because her mother taught her that way, because her grandmother taught her mother that way. They thinksit's needed for the recipe, maybe it makes it juicier? But when asked, her grandmother says, "it's because the roasts we buy from the shop didn't fit in my oven".
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