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   Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 17:27:08 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
   @kura riscv probably couldn't be more open.
   Meanwhile arm, specially in practice is rather closed.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 17:48:23 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Piggo :verified_horse:
     @piggo @kura Well I've yet to see NDAs and firmware blobs on the riscv side of things at least, while arm is full of that stuff.
     
     That said for me the difference is more that StarFive actively mainlines to OpenSBI, u-boot, and linux (and is like 90% done): https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan
     
     Meanwhile Pine64… lol, and it's so typical of ARM devices to just ship with vendor software and not care about mainlining any of their stuff.
   • Embed this notice
     Piggo :verified_horse: (piggo@piggo.space)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 17:48:25 JST Piggo :verified_horse:

     in reply to
     @lanodan @kura arm itself is completely open (well you can't make your own chips with it for free but all the docs are there). Vendor extensions aren't and that is the same with riscv, no?
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 18:35:34 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Piggo :verified_horse:
     • Eragon
     @piggo @kura @eragon riscv isn't just an ISA though, like boot and device discovery is standardized: https://github.com/riscv-non-isa/riscv-brs
     
     Meanwhile yeah, arm is the one that frequently is just a lonely CPU on a board with no boot chip.
   • Embed this notice
     Piggo :verified_horse: (piggo@piggo.space)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 18:35:36 JST Piggo :verified_horse:

     in reply to

     • Eragon
     @eragon @kura @lanodan obviously, but you won't get far with just the ISA, vendors license IP blocks from someone who developed them and thats where the NDA and blobs shit comes from. I dont see how the ISA being open would prevent that, other than just being so new this didn't have time to appear yet
   • Embed this notice
     Eragon (eragon@pl.eragon.re)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 18:35:38 JST Eragon

     in reply to

     • Piggo :verified_horse:

     @piggo From what I understood of RISC-V is that you don't even need a licence to make a chip. You can just grab the spec and start making your own silicon (if you have a fab).
     And all the tools to run something on a chip are free and without blobs.

     @kura @lanodan

   • Embed this notice
     Eragon (eragon@pl.eragon.re)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Jan-2025 18:48:23 JST Eragon

     in reply to

     • Piggo :verified_horse:

     @lanodan @kura @piggo Yup, RISC-V is more than just an ISA it's an ecosystem.
     And that's what makes all the difference.

     Also the fact that there are so many different members backing RISC-V gives me hope that if one of them tries to steer too much into NDAs and blobs the others will force them to stop.
     Intel, Nvidia, Qualcomm they all have made blobs for some of their other products. But you also have the Brazilian Gov, SciFive, Arduino, AMD, Raspberry, and way more.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.