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   sim@shitposter.world's status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 14:40:38 JST sim
   I read the communist manifesto wanting it to turn me into a communist, wanting to learn about what the communist utopia looks like. I was disappointed on both things. It seems like the real communism/utopia for communists is the constant struggle for revolution and socialism.
   
   I don't think that reading a book will necessarily radicalise you into thinking that way. I don't know what else needs to be there but I think you generally need to be open and in agreement with what is being said to follow it. Like it has to speak to you but that presupposes that you already agree with those viewpoints even if you couldn't quite articulate them.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 14:40:37 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @sim
     
     > I read the communist manifesto wanting it to turn me into a communist,
     
     Communists haven't read it.
     
     > It seems like the real communism/utopia for communists is the constant struggle for revolution and socialism.
     
     This is Trotsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution . (Most western commies are Trotskyists that don't realize it and haven't read Trotsky.)
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 14:43:05 JST pistolero

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     • pistolero
     @sim It's actually really easy to read Trotsky because he's right there: https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/index.htm . They read Twitter, where they get barked at by people that read Bell Hooks instead of Trotsky, but the whole deal is basically Trotskyism.
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     Berk Berkman (berkberkman@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 14:49:53 JST Berk Berkman

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     • pistolero
     @p @sim Would Trotsky disavow his viewpoints if he met or read the works of Bell Hooks?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 14:50:37 JST pistolero

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     • Berk Berkman
     @berkberkman @sim I'm not sure what you're asking. I think she is a bad imitation of Trotsky with race-hustling added.
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     Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged) (taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 16:23:06 JST Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)

     in reply to
     @sim
     
     When I was about 20, I read Andrea Dworkin. Being deeply hurt from growing up within porn culture as a soft boy, I was very susceptible to her ideas and it felt like seeing the light. I still agree with her on a deep level.
     
     But I was so naive, I really thought others would just have to read the same few books by her, and they would see the light as well. So I kept spamming the link radfem.org to everyone, trying to convince them to read Dworkin.
     
     Imagine my shock when I eventually came across a guy or two who seemed to have actually read Dworkin, and actually disagreed with her. :blobcat-joy:
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     sim@shitposter.world's status on Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 23:16:15 JST sim

     in reply to

     • Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)
     @taylan When I read the communist manifesto, I was still under the impression that communists read it. That it was the official starting point into communisms because it was the manifesto of a founding father of communism, so to speak. So imagine my surprise now when I learn that communisms aren't doing this like I thought! Haha.
     
     It is funny how naive we are. But it also makes me curious to see what it takes for us to hold ideas like this. I really do think that just reading books isn't enough, therefore it is pointless to ban books for this reason.
     
     Communism didn't hold for me even though I wanted it to for fun but when I read about conservatism it just speaks to me more. Although even there I have questions that need answering still. In a way, I think that we need to already agree with these ideas before reading them, then it is like finding a kindred spirit that is articulating your thoughts better than you have. Providing better insight so that you can explore your own thoughts on the subject matter better.
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     sim@shitposter.world's status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 02:32:09 JST sim

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p Where do they get their ideas of communism from? When I read the manifesto, I thought that was what they were reading so imagine my surprise when that isn't the case at all!
     
     It does seem weird that so much focus is based on the revolution rather than what comes afterwards.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 02:46:42 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @sim It's basically Trotsky filtered through academics in the 1970s and then filtered again through screechy academics and their screechy TAs, and then regurgitated on Twitter. It's essentially Trotskyism: long march through the institutions, "by any means necessary", democracy as oppressive, families as oppressive, language police. All of it's directly from Trotsky. I did a write-up a while back, it's long so I have cut it down a little but it is still long:
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/women/life/23_05_16.htm
     
     Offensive language is oppressive:
     
     > Abusive language and swearing are a legacy of slavery, humiliation, and disrespect for human dignity—one’s own and that of other people.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/tpr/rp05.htm
     
     Only socialism gives you real democratic equality, wealth redistribution:
     
     > The domination of the proletariat will mean not only democratic equality, free self-government, the transference of the whole burden of taxation to the rich classes, the dissolution of the standing army in the armed people and the abolition of compulsory church imposts, but also recognition of all revolutionary changes (expropriations) in land relationships carried out by the peasants.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1932-ger/next01.htm
     
     Republics and fascist states rely on oppression:
     
     > These two systems: the one parliamentary-democratic, the other fascist, derive their support from different combinations of the oppressed and exploited classes
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/unions/3-commsyn.htm
     
     Unions are the way to institute communism:
     
     > In capitalist countries, where the Communist Party does not possess any means of coercion, it is obvious that it can give leadership only by Communists being in the trade unions as rank-and-file members or functionaries.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1940/08/american.htm
     
     It's dated and narrow thinking to believe in the American Dream:
     
     > This lack of social thinking has its origin in the country’s whole history – the Far West with the perspective of unlimited possibilities for everyone to become rich, etc. Now all that is gone, but the mind remains in the past.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/ch11.htm
     
     Freedom must be curtailed for the sake of socialism:
     
     > To be sure, a revolutionary dictatorship means by its very essence strict limitations of freedom. But for that very reason epochs of revolution have never been directly favorable to cultural creation: they have only cleared the arena for it. The dictatorship of the proletariat opens a wider scope to human genius the more it ceases to be a dictatorship. The socialist culture will flourish only in proportion to the dying away of the state.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/tpdiscuss.htm
     
     Taking over or disrupting democratic meetings:
     
     > Send 40 to 50 men to dissolve the meeting. This has tremendous importance. The workers become steeled, fighting elements. They become trumpets. The petty bourgeoisie think these are serious people. Such a success! This has tremendous importance as so much of the populace is blind, backward, oppressed, they can be aroused only by success.
     
     The workers can't understand real socialism:
     
     > This program is a scientific program. It is based on an objective analysis of the objective situation. It cannot be understood by the workers as a whole.
     
     The workers must rule, build parallel organizations, and the only option is socialism:
     
     > there must be a new progressive class which is sufficiently numerous and economically influential in order to impose its will upon society. This class is the proletariat. [⋯] This class must understand its position in society and have its own organizations. That is the condition which is now lacking from the historic point of view. Socially it is not only possible but an absolute necessity in the sense that it is either socialism or barbarism.
     
     Self-explanatory:
     
     > Democracy is only the rule of big bosses. We must understand well what Lundberg showed in his book, that 60 families govern the United States.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/women/life/23_07_13.htm
     
     Housework is oppressive, especially to women:
     
     > We need more socialist economic forms. Only under such conditions can we free the family from the functions and cares that now oppress and disintegrate it. Washing must be done by a public laundry, catering by a public restaurant, sewing by a public workshop. Children must be educated by good public teachers who have a real vocation for the work. Then the bond between husband and wife would be freed from everything external and accidental, and the one would cease to absorb the life of the other. Genuine equality would at last be established.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/women/life/23_07_11.htm
     
     Totalizing philosophy:
     
     > We need years and decades of economic growth and culture to banish Rasteryaevism from its last refuge – individual and family life – recreating it from top to bottom in the spirit of collectivism.
     
     https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/whitherfrance/ch00.htm
     
     It's socialism or fascism, there is no reforming the system:
     
     > Under conditions of capitalist decline there is no longer any place for a party of democratic reforms and “peaceful” progress.
     
     > To approach the peasants and the petty bourgeoisie of the cities, to draw them to our side, is the necessary condition of the success of the struggle against Fascism, not to speak of the conquest of power. Only the problem must be correctly posed, and for that it is necessary to understand clearly the nature of the “middle classes”. Nothing is more dangerous in politics, especially in a critical period, than to repeat general formulas without examining their social content.
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     sim@shitposter.world's status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 02:47:13 JST sim

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • Berk Berkman
     @p @berkberkman I don't think Trotsky would disavow his own views if he read Bell Hooks. But he might have some choice words if it deviates from this own thinking. See the Communist Manifesto for how Marx dealt with the various groups and thoughts of his day. It was so important to denounce these other groups that he named them at the end of his manifesto and let us know they were wrong.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 02:47:51 JST pistolero

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     • Berk Berkman
     @sim @berkberkman
     
     > It was so important to denounce these other groups that he named them at the end of his manifesto and let us know they were wrong.
     
     :brandt:
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     w0rm (w0rm@ryona.agency)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 03:01:22 JST w0rm

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • Berk Berkman
     @p @berkberkman @sim
     
     Icepick more communists, the moral is clear.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 03:01:36 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • w0rm
     • Berk Berkman
     @w0rm @berkberkman @sim :satcong:
     alwayssatcong.jpg
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     Adachildrapist (adachi@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:56:07 JST Adachildrapist

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     • FrailLeaf
     @sim @FrailLeaf
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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     FrailLeaf (frailleaf@ryona.agency)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:56:40 JST FrailLeaf

     in reply to

     • Adachildrapist
     @adachi @sim congratulations on finding a fellow marxman
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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     Adachildrapist (adachi@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:56:43 JST Adachildrapist

     in reply to

     • FrailLeaf
     @FrailLeaf
     
     @sim wanna fuck? i can tell you why what marx said is correct whilst you sit my lap and i jerk you off and kiss your neck and shoulders, i'll even justify his points without using morality and instead using objective reasoning
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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     Adachildrapist (adachi@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:56:59 JST Adachildrapist

     in reply to

     • FrailLeaf
     @FrailLeaf @sim
     It's my fetish to spread it though
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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     Adachildrapist (adachi@the.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:57:01 JST Adachildrapist

     in reply to

     • FrailLeaf
     @FrailLeaf @sim
     keep what? my AIDS?
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     FrailLeaf (frailleaf@ryona.agency)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:57:01 JST FrailLeaf

     in reply to

     • Adachildrapist
     @adachi @sim yeah
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     FrailLeaf (frailleaf@ryona.agency)'s status on Sunday, 05-Jan-2025 12:57:02 JST FrailLeaf

     in reply to

     • Adachildrapist
     @adachi @sim keep it