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SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 21:48:37 JST SuperDicq
- kaia
- grillchen
@grillchen@brotka.st @kaia@brotka.st He failed at both tasks.

In conversation about 2 months ago from minidisc.tokyo permalink
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  SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 21:49:37 JST SuperDicq
  in reply to
  - kaia
  - grillchen
  @grillchen@brotka.st @kaia@brotka.st l don't use Linux because it's good, I use Linux because it's the least worst kernel that we have (if running Debian or Linux-Libre).
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
  mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
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  Insane Eagle Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:04:50 JST Insane Eagle Sun
  in reply to
  - kaia
  - grillchen
  @SuperDicq @kaia @grillchen I used to use Linux because Linux used to emphasize choice. People considered this a weakness that you had so many crazy options for putting together a system but I considered it a strength. It is still good at that but I feel like the respect for choice is gone at the top.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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  SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:06:11 JST SuperDicq
  in reply to
  @sun@shitposter.world @kaia@brotka.st @grillchen@brotka.st I'm not sure what you mean. There's always infinite choice because the software is free.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
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  mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:08:54 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:
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  @sun @SuperDicq @grillchen @kaia I just like the freedom of the free market, the consequences of having that is a net positive for civilization.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
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  Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:17:58 JST Phantasm
  in reply to
  @SuperDicq @kaia @grillchen @sun Sure it is free, but the support for the more non-mainstream choice is getting worse on a monthly basis. Yes, you can modify the software to work, but when half of the software stack hard depends on something you don't want, be it dbus, systemd or anything else, it just becomes completely impractical to do so.
  
  You are still free to choose whatever you want, but centralization of dependencies has made it a choice between something that probably does not work, or something you don't want.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
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  SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:20:50 JST SuperDicq
  in reply to
  @phnt@fluffytail.org @kaia@brotka.st @grillchen@brotka.st @sun@shitposter.world >support for the more non-mainstream choice is getting worse on a monthly basis
  
  Is it really? Nowadays we got many mainstream distros that things in their own way that you can just install and they work out of the box. Just install something like Devuan or maybe Alpine or Void or something?
  
  I don't think it's impractical at all, these are all very normal and user friendly distros. It's really not that big of a deal nowadays if you don't want to run systemd for whatever pointless autistic reason.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
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  SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:32:46 JST SuperDicq
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  @phnt@fluffytail.org @kaia@brotka.st @grillchen@brotka.st @sun@shitposter.world The distros abstract away the problems, because they already patched the packages.That's the entire point. That's what you want. That's why it is free software!
  
  If you point is that "Linux From Scratch" is impractical then yeah I agree, it is impractical and that's why nobody who actually uses their computer for anything important does this.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
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  Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:32:47 JST Phantasm
  in reply to
  @SuperDicq @kaia @grillchen @sun The distros abstract away the problems, because they already patched the packages. The reality is different.
  
  Just to give a few examples for badly behaving programs that don't work properly without mainstream dependencies:
  - Firefox (build on a system without dbus; requires somewhat extensive patching)
  - systemd v239 (disable seccomp, pam and most unneeded parts; kinda old but still used version (rhel8) - will fail to build because nobody tested it without these two dependencies apparently)
  - get network settings working in a desktop environment on a system without NetworkMamager (probably doable on KDE, likely impossible on GNOME)
  
  And from a non-Linux world, Erlang had broken TLS1.3 support detection on systems using LibreSSL basically since it was introduced (fixed a few months ago).
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
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  Insane Eagle Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:38:47 JST Insane Eagle Sun
  in reply to
  @mischievoustomato @grillchen @kaia @SuperDicq I'm a software engineer, I know.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
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  Johnny Peligro, now on Mitra! (mischievoustomato@mitra.taihou.website)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:38:49 JST Johnny Peligro, now on Mitra!
  in reply to
  @sun @SuperDicq @grillchen @kaia the thing about choice and modularity is that it's hard and complex and it gets in the way of what you'd like
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
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  Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Dec-2024 22:44:19 JST Phantasm
  in reply to
  @SuperDicq @kaia @grillchen @sun No my point is that the modularity of the ecosystem is going away and it makes it harder for maintainers to maintain software on systems with non-mainstream dependencies removed.
  
  The user probably does not care that much what is running, unless they are a power user. The problem is that packaging the software properly is becoming harder.
  
  In other words, the free software written today isn't portable. You can no longer run ./configure on various esoteric Linux distros, *BSDs, Solaris,... and expect it configure and build without much problems. Everybody just targets the most known configuration and usually ignores the rest.
  
  In conversation about 2 months ago permalink
  
  Insane Eagle Sun likes this.

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