Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 04:03:18 JST foo ✅

   Everyone seems to be averting their eyes from the fact that capitalism as a system seems to require underpaid or slave labor to keep things affordable to the general public so that it works out.

   1/n

   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:44:06 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     No one seems to see this as a problem. Of course, mass deportations are a really bad idea, but so is relying on underpaid or slave labor. Is there a way to have capitalism without relying on exploitation? Robots are one answer. Perhaps the tech oligarchs are planning to implement that. I think it would be better than underpaid/slave labor, but it's a different sort of terrifying.

     2/n

   • Embed this notice
     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:44:06 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     @slashdottir

     No. It is not possible for capitalism to not be exploitative, no matter how many reforms or regulations you have. The private ownership of the means of production and the extraction of surplus value from workers is inherently exploitative and lead to the problems workers face: poverty, wealth inequality, etc, and capitalisms constant need for exponential growth lead to imperialism and environmental degradation. If you want capitalist exploitation gone, capitalism must go.

   • Embed this notice
     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:01 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • 🏞
     • Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     @rameshgupta @slashdottir @DaveFlater

     "Fair progressive taxation" does not eliminate capitalist exploitation. Capitalist exploitation comes from the private ownership of the means of production, where the owners extract surplus value from workers to gain profit, which is the prime motivator in capitalism, which inevitably causes low wages and poverty for the workers while the private owners benefit from the workers labor. 1/2

   • Embed this notice
     🏞 (daveflater@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:02 JST 🏞

     in reply to

     @slashdottir I parroted the official figure. In the last month I've learned that web hosting will go up 75% and gym membership will double 2025/2024.

   • Embed this notice
     Ramesh #NotGoingBack (rameshgupta@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:02 JST Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     in reply to

     • 🏞

     ⬆️ @slashdottir

     >> Everyone seems to be averting their eyes from the fact that capitalism as a system seems to require underpaid or slave labor to keep things affordable to the general public so that it works out … Is there a way to have capitalism without relying on exploitation?

     Fair, #progressiveTaxation is what's missing.

     4+ decades of #Reagan #TrickleDown economic policies is what brought us here.

     Problem is not #Capitalism but unbridled #laissezFaire. Govt is not optional.

     @DaveFlater

     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:03 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     • 🏞

     @DaveFlater Do you know why inflation is so bad worldwide? I assume it's because the oligarchs are price gouging because they can, or maybe it's because standards of living are rising worldwide, but its hard to believe the standards are rising as fast as prices are.

   • Embed this notice
     🏞 (daveflater@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:03 JST 🏞

     in reply to

     @slashdottir Price gouging and inflation are different phenomena, but we are getting both.

     We are getting price gouging on non-discretionary things like food and medicine because the industries have become so consolidated that they can dictate prices and the government is not doing much regulation anymore. There were some shock effects from Covid and the war in Ukraine, but they should have settled out by now. Food still costs 30% more.

     We are getting inflation, which is an overall devaluation of a currency on all sides, because governments allow the monetary supply to increase. They do this because it is an easy way out of fiscal crises in the near term, such as are caused by, for example, underwriting every single war on the planet or running a deficit year after year. Assuming that wages do rise along with the price of necessities, inflation is effectively a tax on savings, which destroys retirees trying to live off their previous earnings.

     We now have economists arguing with a straight face that national debt doesn't matter if you're America with the almighty dollar and American exceptionalism, bald eagles and all that. Sigh. People will believe anything.

   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:03 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     • 🏞

     @DaveFlater Where I live inflation is more like 130% and continually rising

   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:04 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     I apologize for my ignorance around this, if there is an obvious solution that I haven't seen yet.. well, mansplaining welcome...

     5/5

   • Embed this notice
     🏞 (daveflater@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:04 JST 🏞

     in reply to

     @slashdottir general opinions: 1. The political -ism matters less than you think to what actually happens. 2. USD is way overvalued.

     Manufacturing always migrates to where their profits can be maximized. This is not necessarily determined by the political -ism and doesn't mean that they are going to lower their prices.

     Labor is poorly paid because it can be. Big business is more effective at wielding power and getting governments *of all flavors* to do them favors. Labor rights on paper, be it a US law or a socialist constitution, are worth nothing if they are not enforced with seriousness, and the trend everywhere has been for those in power to permit those rights to erode.

     The premium paid for the US Dollar is insane. Everything is just expensive in the US. This seems destined to end, but it has already gone on longer than I thought it would. Compared to Warsaw, buying stuff in the US costs 4x as much and the quality is absolute shit.

     * A strong dollar should make imported goods cheaper. And yet living here is still very, very expensive.

   • Embed this notice
     🏞 (daveflater@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:04 JST 🏞

     in reply to

     @slashdottir further thoughts:

     On most durable goods, I do not have a choice between US or China manufacturing. It is made in China and not in the US. The only choice I have is between ordering direct from China or paying a 10x markup to get the same thing from a redundant middleman. The whole narrative about undercutting US manufacturing with cheap labor is a red herring when there is no US manufacturing. The option to pay more to support a US worker does not exist.

     In Europe I saw consumer goods made in Europe for sale. I don't see that here except for luxury items in foo foo shops.

     On domestic food production, the market is set by large corporate operations with efficiency of scale and favorable government treatment. A small family farm simply cannot hit the same price point. They can easily deliver better quality, however.

     US manufacturing is
     - "Defense industry" weapons and ammo, bombs and bombers
     - Auto makers that have been repeatedly propped up and bailed out by the federal govt and protected by tariffs (hence not viable without artificial life support)
     - Very small and highly specialized industries that you've never heard of that can disappear overnight when their business model gets smashed by changing conditions

     No textiles are made in the US. Outside of the defense industry, very little electronics manufacturing happens in the US.

   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:05 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     We've also been relying on cheap labor overseas. Why are they able to subsist on pennies an hour over there? I get that maybe their currency is valued differently to us than it is to them. This is where my understanding of international economics falters.

     3/n

   • Embed this notice
     foo ✅ (slashdottir@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:05 JST foo ✅

     in reply to

     People like to say: "Buy local!" But that means, for example, paying $25 for an 8 oz jar of honey. Always buying everything local is only plausible for the wealthy. My fellow citizens are earning a minimum of ~$15/hour, so anything they make is priced accordingly.

     4/n

   • Embed this notice
     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 07:51:21 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • 🏞
     • Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     @rameshgupta @slashdottir @DaveFlater

     Capitalism is the problem. No amount of taxation will eliminate this as long as the capitalist system of private ownership of the means of production exists. Capitalism has to go if capitalist exploitation is to be eliminated, and socialism must replace it in order to give workers power over their labor and their lives. 2/2

   • Embed this notice
     Ramesh #NotGoingBack (rameshgupta@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 09:35:37 JST Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     in reply to

     • 🏞
     • ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     ⬆️ @Radical_EgoCom

     >> Capitalism is the problem. No amount of taxation will eliminate this as long as the capitalist system of private ownership of the means of production exists… where the owners extract surplus value from workers…

     If there is no surplus value, economies stagnate, shrink, and collapse. The goal is to tax the surplus in a way to discourage the surplus from being concentrated in a few dozen hands. That does not require govt control means of production

     @slashdottir @DaveFlater

   • Embed this notice
     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 09:50:11 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • 🏞
     • Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     @rameshgupta @slashdottir @DaveFlater

     This plan is unrealistic. The ruling bourgeois class has the power to influence politicians and legislation. They won't allow any reforms that would actually take significant amounts of power away from them to be passed. It's a pipedream to think that the bourgeois ruling class will just sit by and let laws be passed that will take their power away and not use that power to maintain their power like they always have. 1/2

   • Embed this notice
     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2024 09:50:22 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • 🏞
     • Ramesh #NotGoingBack

     @rameshgupta @slashdottir @DaveFlater

     If capitalists' power is what is to be taken away, then capitalism, the system that allots them that power, must be abolished and replaced with a system where power is shared collectively, i.e., socialism. 2/2