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Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 18:54:40 JST Charlie Stross
- Strypey
@strypey See also: https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/13636
(The religious angle goes back to the 19th century Russian Orthodox theologian Nikolai Fyodorovitch Fyodorov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Fyodorov_(philosopher)
In conversation about 7 months ago from wandering.shop permalink
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  Nikolai Fyodorov (philosopher)
  
  Nikolai Fyodorovich Fyodorov (Russian: Николай Фёдорович Фёдоров; 9 June 1829 – 28 December 1903), known in his family as Nikolai Pavlovich Gagarin, was a Russian Orthodox Christian philosopher, religious thinker and futurologist, library science figure and an innovative educator. He started the movement of Russian cosmism which was a precursor of transhumanism. Fyodorov advocated radical life extension, physical immortality and even resurrection of the dead, using scientific methods. He was called the "Socrates of Moscow." He was referred to with respect and admiration by Leo Tolstoy, Fyodor Dostoevsky, and V. S. Solovyov. He dreamed of resurrecting people, not wanting to be reconciled to the death of even one person. With the help of science, he intended to gather scattered molecules and atoms to "put them into the bodies of the fathers". Fyodorov gave science a place next to art and religion in the Common Task of uniting humanity, including the dead, who must in the future be reunited with the living. He held that "we can become immortal and godlike through rational efforts and that our moral obligation is to create a heaven...
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  Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 18:13:59 JST Charlie Stross
  in reply to
  - Strypey
  - Timnit Gebru (she/her)
  @strypey @timnitGebru Nah. AI is a side-effect of metempsychosis, the belief in the transmigration of the soul. Which is part of the bedrock of Christian dogma. But in contemporary belief it overlaps with robots, which are basically just slaves that can't rebel and aren't human so don't raise moral issues (to the idiots who believe this stuff uncritically).
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metempsychosis
  
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 18:14:01 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  - Timnit Gebru (she/her)
  (1/2)
  @cstross
  > The religious angle goes back to the 19th century Russian Orthodox theologian Nikolai Fyodorovitch Fyodorov
  Oh yes, Cosmism. Afriend who studies International Relations and occult history put me onto this.
  I was thinking you could trace the religious origins of "AI" even further back, to the Jewish stories about the golem. A being made of clay (often containing silica), animated by having names of god (software?) inscribed on them, or put in their mouths.
  @timnitGebru
  
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  Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 18:14:02 JST Strypey
  in reply to
  - Timnit Gebru (she/her)
  @cstross
  Thanks for the pointer to Fyodorov. I'll have a read.
  Thanks also for the First Monday link, I think I've read this? Or at least skimmed it. I used to see @timnitGebru around the place before Eternal November began. May also have seen it linked from BetterWithout.ai, or somewhere else in David Chapman's work.
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