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   harb (harbeau@gearlandia.haus)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 01:30:54 JST harb
   :niggy_think_a:
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 01:33:33 JST Druid

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     @harbeau It doesn't matter what happens, Pomu will always be the goat chuuba and the goat design.
     
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 01:34:06 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

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     • Druid
     @druid @harbeau after all they're virtual, so as long as they're remembered they are forever.
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 02:43:00 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @harbeau It's kinda true but like anything else our species produces that's only as good as people's desire/ability to archive it.... Pomu's old videos are still up because she managed to leave Niji without the usual mushroom cloud of drama, but all it would take would be for her to mouth off about her time at Niji a bit more on her (reincarnated) Mint persona and Niji would likely delete her old channel.
     
     There are fans who prepare for these kinds of things - that's why there's still a giant archive of everything Selen ever streamed floating around on 4chan - but nothing lasts forever, does it?
     
     "So long as they are remembered" is right. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If the AI-driven nightmare that threatens our world actually does consume our culture (which it almost definitely will since even people who despise it are hypnotised into helping develop it, and there is a giant doomsay cult of people who relish in the oncoming dystopia) then who's to say this 40-50 year blip of fun and flashing lights and bing bing wahoo noises won't end up just as buried as - say - alchemy is today?
     
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 02:52:14 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

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     • Druid
     @druid @harbeau Yeah, nothing exactly lasts forever, it needs some kind of maintenance.
     
     As for the wahoo… I think the medium-independent parts will stay, like you can graffiti miku all over the place, the songs can end up being folklore, …
     
     At least to me things that managed to somewhat end up as folklore are much more permanent than archives. Like Celtic folklore is quite proof of this, it's ~2 millennia old, I don't think a lot of people can read the original texts, yet if I say King Arthur most people know who it is.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 02:57:34 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Druid
     @druid @harbeau In fact pretty sure Touhou music is more or less folklore already given how many people know the songs yet have no idea who ZUN is or what the Touhou games are.
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:01:05 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @harbeau Funny you should say that, after I made that post I was thinking "Mythology comes the closest to lasting forever." Just today I was talking to my dad about how Australian Aboriginal oral histories contain accounts of first arriving in their environment (seemingly from a fertile basin that became flooded by rising sea levels) and of hunting early prey to extinction. These events would be from thousands and thousands of years ago, yet they're still remembered through the power of oral cycles.
     
     This is how we preserved the Homerian epics *and* the Vedas, and it's exactly the solution that the "This is not a place of honour" guys turned to in order to try and preserve knowledge of the dangers of nuclear waste - an oral tradition, a kind of priesthood of Oppenheimer, complete with lab coat regalia.
     
     Ritual preserves better than archiving. Your example of the Arthurian epics is a very good one - Arthur Mac Leod was a real man, so was Laoidh Ceann ("Merlin"), so were Gawain and his brothers, so were many figures in the Arthurian canon (but not Landelot lol.) In a way, our preserved image of Arthur as the ideal king and peerless commander haunted by tragic and romantic failings is *more useful* as a way of remembering him than as the prodigal son of a Scot warlord with an unnatural, Alexander-like gift for warfare.
     
     The thought of a world where the figures of Miku or Mario or the red amogus become shorthands, then legends, then symbols anagolous to heroes, is a fun one. Thanks for that, that's a torch against the darkness.
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:05:20 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan @harbeau Yeah, that sunk in for me when I saw a comment on an Artificial Dream in Arcadia video where someone was just realizing for the first time that all these songs and anime girls are from the same place lol. I guess that’s kinda like what diving into Arthur felt like for me - I started with a vague image and ended up knowing more than I thought existed.

     I’m now remembering a comment I saw online regarding the (excellent, underrated, everyone should give it a shot tbh) game Deceive Inc., a multiplayer spy game with a strong 70s spy swag kind of aesthetic. It was a teenager saying “This game reminds me of the classic spy movies like Despicable Me.” Immediately I thought “Wait a moment, this person has seen Despicable Me, but has never seen James Bond” - his internal reference for what spy fiction even is was based on parody, on a derivative of the original.

     But that’s the same for Arthur isn’t it? That’s what happens when a person is vaguely familiar with the image of Arthur but nothing else - or even if they’ve just read a bit of The Once and Future King. It’s the same for everything. Our entire expectation of what a novel is can be traced back directly to a handful of early ones like Tristram Shandy.

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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:07:35 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Druid
     @lanodan @harbeau Sorry, forgot my picture lol. I guess James Bond would be at the top, and Despicable Me would be at or near the bottom.
     
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:07:43 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

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     • Druid
     @druid @harbeau In fact, isn't James Bond a parody too?
     
     Funny one is I don't think I've seen a James Bond, but I've seen Austin Powers, OSS-117, …
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:14:58 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @harbeau I think the jury is kinda out on whether Bond counts as parody, simply because Fleming was writing the novels back before "spy fiction" in that vein was really a thing. And don't forget, he might have hammed it up, but he WAS a spy too - hard to believe as it might be when you're reading something like the ridiculous alpine escape scenes in On Her Majesty's Secret Service lol.
     
     If Fleming had begun writing after Le Carre I'd consider it cut and dry though, Bond novels almost read like a parody of Smiley novels at times.
     
     But really I think it's worth going and watching an old Bond film or two just for the cultural experience if nothing else. Starting at the beginning is awkward because the first couple are kind of slow, and jumping in with Daniel Craig's bond gives you a very atypical experience. As much as most people would probably pick out something like View to a Kill as a cross-section of the franchise, I'd honestly just watch Goldeneye because fuck it, it's one of the best films ever made. (Plus it gives more context to the N64 game, which is one of the best GAMES ever made.
     
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:15:35 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Druid
     @lanodan @harbeau (Forgot to say that campy detective pulp stuff was definitely a thing when Fleming started writing though, that goes all the way back to penny dreadfuls)
     
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:25:44 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

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     • Druid
     @druid @harbeau Yeah Goldeneye is probably where I'd start, due to it being a classic and the N64 game.
     
     Also didn't expect Ian Flemming to be a spy. Kind of makes me think of an alternate reality where NSA Whistleblowers like Edward Snowden would have become known for spy books instead.
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     Druid (druid@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 03:55:28 JST Druid

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @harbeau Le Carre was too! But they took totally different approaches. The climax of a Fleming book is when James Bond is dodging bullets while driving a speedboat recklessly through a Venetian canal. The climax of a Le Carre book is when Smiley is calmly arranging to meet a spy at the Iron Curtain for extraction, then never actually showing up so that the agent just gets caught and the secret op gets buried.
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