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   Michael Lucas :flan_set_fire: (mwl@io.mwl.io)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 02:14:20 JST Michael Lucas :flan_set_fire:

   This. All of this. Times several million.

   https://medium.com/@GregPogorzelski/the-thing-about-the-kobayashi-maru-4d5e1e49993e

   • aracnus likes this.
   • Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Simon Zerafa (simonzerafa@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:07:56 JST Simon Zerafa

     in reply to

     @mwl

     "The Kobayashi Maru isn’t a simulation. It’s propaganda in video game form, and it’s conveying a way of doing things that shouldn’t be part of Starfleet, whether it was intended to by its designers or not."

     Absolutely.

     Do not accept an invalid test or the status quo because a higher authority says you must 🙂🖖

     #KobayashiMaru #StarTrek

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     Hisham (hisham_hm@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:08:04 JST Hisham

     in reply to

     @mwl

     This is exactly how I feel about the Trolley Problem.

     It is a completely unrealistic propaganda device for a kind of utilitarian philosophy. One with terrible consequences we see all around us today.

     The fact that it comes from and is especially popular in the English-speaking world (and has slowly spread to the rest of the world via memes in the recent years) also denounces its lack of universality. It is not a fundamental moral dilemma. It is exactly what this story describes.

     Rich Felker repeated this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:10:27 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Hisham

     @hisham_hm @mwl The trolley problem used as an analogy almost always falsely implies agency for sending the smaller group to their deaths when that's not actually the choice to be made. Move the smaller group before the junction and it's much likelier to reflect reality, where the choice is purely to save some people or not, where there are others you have no power to save.

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     Hisham (hisham_hm@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:21:03 JST Hisham

     in reply to

     • Zimmie

     @bob_zim @mwl I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but my main contention with such thought exercises is precisely that ethical frameworks cannot be neatly isolated into axes (I have a similar gripe with the Political Compass, which I see as Libertarian propaganda; the fact that it is used in Libertarian recruitment corroborates my view).

     Continental philosophy has its flaws (it often gets lost in language) but, at its worst, analytic philosophy can be dehumanizing.

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     Zimmie (bob_zim@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:21:04 JST Zimmie

     in reply to

     • Hisham

     @hisham_hm @mwl People really take the wrong thing away from the trolley problem. It isn’t directly about what you personally would or should do. Instead, it’s like an axis of comparison for ethical frameworks. It’s one of the extremes where differences (and sometimes similarities) between them become more apparent.

     Like how Schrödinger’s cat isn’t saying the cat is both alive and dead, it’s taking a model we have for quantum effects and showing how, when taken to extremes, it produces results which are patently absurd.

     Rich Felker repeated this.
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     JP (jplebreton@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 13:22:26 JST JP

     in reply to

     • Hisham

     @hisham_hm @mwl exactly. it's a framing exercise about de-centering everyone in the paths of the trolley and centering + identifying with the decision maker holding the lever. no surprise that it's come up a lot recently, with the powerful refusing to accept accountability for their failures and writing off millions of lives.