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1. Embed this notice
   Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 23:33:01 JST Charlie Stross

   THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: Search algorithms on the ad-funded web are all about *selling you something you don't need or want*. Marketing in the purest sense. When the W3C opted for ad-supported web rather than microbilling to fund build-out of the internet to the general public back in 1996 they made a terrible mistake: in the 30 year time scale it may turn out to have cost us democracy.

   • alcinnz and Josh Bressers repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Feinman (afeinman@wandering.shop)'s status on Saturday, 16-Nov-2024 23:55:46 JST Alex Feinman

     in reply to

     @cstross They'd have figured out how to infiltrate and reuse the "free" command and control surface presented by the WWW, no matter its funding source.

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 00:01:26 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Alex Feinman

     @afeinman Different incentive structure, though. It's the clicks-per-view metric (for ad views) that drove our social media to prioritize outrage and dopamine boosts over quality content. It's the keep-their-eyes-on-our-site-only that's driving Google to kill the public internet and Facebook to build walled gardens.

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     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 00:51:26 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Angus McIntyre

     @angusm The killer in 1995 was supposedly the tear-up/tear-down cost of a POTS connection, which handily exceeded the lower threshold for a microbilled transaction. Also, the banking biz was *terrible* about figuring out the internet (otherwise we wouldn't have to hear about Elon Musk).

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     Angus McIntyre (angusm@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 00:51:27 JST Angus McIntyre

     in reply to

     @cstross I don't disagree about the damaging effects of the surveillance advertising model ... but was micro-billing a practical option? We don't seem to be able to make it work even now.

     Part of the problem is that the most promising attempts seem to have been inextricably linked to That Crypto Bullshit™, discouraging take-up. And if micro-billing ever does take off, it won't be immune to the same kind of perverse incentives as the ad model (although the effects may be less disastrous).

     Tyrone Slothrop repeated this.
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     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 01:46:38 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     • Turing Incomplete

     @dawngreeter Yup. But back in 1995, nobody realized the *public* internet was going to be significantly bigger than the BBS scene—uptake around 0.1-1.0% of the population. (I remember: I was there, joined my first web startup that March.)

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     Turing Incomplete (dawngreeter@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 01:46:39 JST Turing Incomplete

     in reply to

     @cstross Public infrastructure should be publicly owned and tax funded.

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Bardsley :orangewine: (alexgbardsley@epicure.social)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 05:57:49 JST Alex Bardsley :orangewine:

     in reply to

     @cstross
     Marketing may often be *selling you something you don't need or want*, but that's not what it's supposed to be. Marketing should be figuring out who might want or need your product or service, and figuring out how to help them find you. Sales is different, or but too many sales people have infested marketing.

   • Embed this notice
     Dan Veditz (dveditz@infosec.exchange)'s status on Sunday, 17-Nov-2024 08:00:12 JST Dan Veditz

     in reply to

     @cstross
     The web of 1996 didn't pay much heed to the W3C, it was all about Netscape and Microsoft throwing non-standard features at each other trying to win ”the browser war”. Even if the W3C recommended micro transactions it would have gone nowhere unless one or both of them were interested in supporting it.

     (Note to younger readers: both companies made money selling server solutions; the browsers were ”loss leaders” even before the price was driven to $0)

   • Embed this notice
     Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Monday, 18-Nov-2024 00:02:17 JST Charlie Stross

     in reply to

     @WhyNotZoidberg Yes, I worked at a consultancy who helped get the Daily Telegraph online in '95. I was there, working in the field. I remember what it was like.

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     :blahaj: Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑 (whynotzoidberg@topspicy.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Nov-2024 00:02:19 JST :blahaj: Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑

     in reply to

     @cstross

     Honestly I don't think it would have worked; the web only took off because people could read their newspapers for free online and maybe find a chatroom you liked. Paywalls for newspapers were still years away.

     This was way before web-shops or social media existed after all, everything moving in a 56.6k full duplex speed...