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   triceratops (triceratops@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 22:05:09 JST triceratops

   • narF ✌️🩵

   @narF Socialism is when a country's means of production are divided equally between private and public (government) ownership.

   Capitalism is when a country's means of production are predominantly privately owned.

   Communism is when a country's means of production are predominantly owned by the public (government).

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     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 22:05:01 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     @Faket

     You're wrong. There are socialists who advocate for reformism, but socialism itself is not reformist. Socialism is the collective control and ownership of the means of production either directly or through state ownership. Socialism can also be revolutionary and advocate for a state-owned economy.

     #socialism #reformism #revolution

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     Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧 (faket@c.im)'s status on Friday, 08-Nov-2024 22:05:02 JST Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     in reply to

     • narF ✌️🩵

     @triceratops @narF mmmhhh, i do not agree to this.
     Socialism is a way to change society by reforming it, communism is by revolting, both leading to a state owned economy.

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     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 00:07:49 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     @Faket

     What do you mean "in French, socialism is not revolutionary?" What does that even mean?

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     Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧 (faket@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 00:07:50 JST Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     in reply to

     • ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     @Radical_EgoCom Maybe the french translation is different then… In french socialism is not revolutionary, I think.

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     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 01:19:43 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     @Faket

     No, it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. Socialism, as I already mentioned, and which you could have looked up yourself instead of repeating your untrue claim, is the collective control and ownership of the means of production. There are different ideas of how socialism should be implemented. Some implementations are reformist, and some are revolutionary, but socialism is just an economic and social system.

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     Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧 (faket@c.im)'s status on Saturday, 09-Nov-2024 01:19:44 JST Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     in reply to

     • ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     @Radical_EgoCom socialism is reformism, not revolutionary.

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     Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br) (lxo@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 02:13:11 JST Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)

     in reply to

     • ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
     you're talking past each other over an overloaded term. focus on concepts, not labels, is my advice.
     
     I find it's problematic to insist that there's one true definition of such long-standing and changing terms. socialism preexisted communism, and marx wrote against socialism. later on, socialism was adopted as the term for the intermediate transitional state from capitalism to communism. then it was bombarded by propaganda and became associated in some places with anything that vaguely resembles questioning of neoliberal exploitation practices. it's little use to insist any of these is "more right" than the other when the other party in the conversation is just as convinced because teachers and people around them have traditionally used that word with that meaning. it's challenging to dig deeper into what each party means by such overloaded terms, but it usually leads to deeper, more productive interactions, instead of heat and impasses.
     Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧 likes this.
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     ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 02:25:38 JST ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
     • Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet 🚴 🇵🇸 🇱🇧

     @lxo

     I didn't say there was only one true definition of socialism. My position in the conversation was literally the opposite. @Faket was saying that socialism is reformist and not revolutionary, and I was saying that socialism is not limited to that one definition because socialism can take either a revolutionary or reformist form depending on the particular school of socialism.