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1. Embed this notice
   Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 03:57:21 JST Church of Jeff

   #SermonOnTheMount #Atheism #Atheist #Capitalism #NoBillionaires #ChristianNationalist #ChristianDominionism #TaxTheRich #EatTheRich #FlipTheTables #WhipTheBankers #Matthew25 #lgbtq #lgbtqia #trans #EqualRights

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 04:24:29 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus -- LOL, check the hashtags... I'm throwing it into the face of christians, using imagery and memes that they already know.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 04:24:31 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     @jeffowski Just a heads up: Maybe don't spread a meme originally created by a literal Neo-Nazi and Holocaust denier...
     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StoneToss
     https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/stonetoss

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 04:35:44 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus -- And he isn't getting paid or benefitting from it's use here. It is lifted and twisted and fed back into the same Christian feeds where this style/meme is already being used.

     You paid 2¢ more than the artist will get.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 04:35:45 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     @jeffowski I'm not telling you what to do. Just giving you some context - you do with it what you want.
     My 2cts:
     Some imagery is part of something so hateful, that it is simply not redeemable. There is a point where the possibility of 'gotcha' is superseded by the unavoidable normalization of hateful content (completely removed from your intentions).
     And from my POV - Stonetoss is such a case

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:02:21 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus -- The Alt-Right and the shittiest of people will use social media in savvy ways and spread their hate, but on the liberal side, we abandon these tools of social media for what purpose?

     I laugh when I hear, "The liberals don't know how to win," but it's true...

     Social Media is LIZARD BRAIN shit and the fascists are winning and you want to hamstring people who are using these tools to fight fascism?

     Pearl clutching is getting you places...

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:02:22 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     @jeffowski And speaking of "You need to be a lot more social network literate.":
     I know the kind of memes the alt-right used and still uses for ~10 years. That's exactly why I reacted the way I did.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:02:25 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     @jeffowski It's not about him - it is about everyone else.

     And - to be honest - also about me. I was (and still am) disgusted to see his imagery in my personal feed.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:18:20 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @jeffowski I'm with @lavaeolus here. When I saw the post I went "isn't that…?" and yes, it was.
     Also, Peanut and Pepe are examples of fascists appropriating "neutral" things, not antifascists neutralizing or (successfully) converting fascist memes (even though Pepe's creator had some success in fighting back).
     Use memes to your heart's delight, but when you use some nazi shit you will get pushback.

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:18:20 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Henrik Schönemann

     @Mabande @lavaeolus -- And using those as models, we have a pathway for co-opting the imagery and memes used on Christian and Right-wing feeds and providing counter-messaging.

     Again, if you are putting up arbritrary limitations on how you want to fight fascism when there are no limits to the fascists, which side are you actually on?

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:19:43 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus -- AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEED SOCIAL MEDIA LITERACY.

     You cannot take NEW imagery and then feed it back into their feeds. They skip and ignore it.

     That is the POINT of using their imagery and memes. You have to TRICK them into seeing the message.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:19:44 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     @jeffowski If you're feeling hamstrung by my mild criticism, that's a you problem.
     But to keep engaging in good faith: My 'pearl clutching' consists of (i. a.) no longer fuelling an outrage-machine like Twitter/X; being anti-fascist in my words and actions.
     I certainly see the value of using the language of memes to fight fascists - but imho by creating memes instead of adapting/repeating theirs.
     Like this:

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:32:41 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus @Mabande -- Your only point is that you don't like it. Your only point is that you have bad feelings about seeing the image.

     You even pointed it out, that this is a YOU thing.

     So why do you keep coming back to admonish me for a YOU thing?

     Come back when you've learned how social media works.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:32:42 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @jeffowski And now I'm disengaging - you got pushback; my POV is clear. Continuing to argue is just a waste of time and energy (for everyone involved).
     @Mabande

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:33:54 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • Henrik Schönemann

     @jeffowski @lavaeolus Could you point to a single example where co-opting nazi propaganda imagery have ever worked?

     Ridiculing it out of existence? Yes, at times.

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Nov-2024 05:33:54 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Henrik Schönemann

     @Mabande @lavaeolus --

   • Embed this notice
     Church of Jeff (jeffowski@mastodon.world)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:08 JST Church of Jeff

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • TheOneSwit

     @Mabande @TheOneSwit — the best thing about all of your commenting, is that it boosts and pushes this post on the algorithm. You helped this post show up on everyone’s local and Federated feeds. Thanks for the assistance.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:09 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit @jeffowski Okay, so you're just dumb as a post.
     Cheers 'n' ciao.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:10 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit Yes, I've told people to not use twitter for some years now. Your point being?

     Also, this thread isn't about nazis co-opting stuff. It's about @jeffowski claiming to co-opt nazi stuff.
     The stonetoss comic Jeff used is literally nazi propaganda he claims to co-opt by putting cutesy labels on it.
     How is this not registering with you?

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:10 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski No it's just about you crying that you need a nazi discussion.

     but i dont care any longer about your nazistuff.

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:12 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski

     Tell the people to not use nazi stuff like Twitter

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:13 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit Yes, and in this case it's when @jeffowski (and you) instead of just acknowledging that it's not the best thing to use nazi memes tries to silence the commenter(s) by attacking/disparaging.

     It's not a bad thing that people get to know about and learn how to identify propaganda, so if this thread goes viral it would be pretty gosh darn sweet, bucko.

     …

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:13 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit @jeffowski … Yes, Lovecraft was racist, and there's no need to burn his books, but you have to realize some of his stuff can't be "co-opted" into something positive no matter how much you love them.

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:13 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski it has to be co-opted into something other that's how they destroy evrything positive. they take it and make it into Nazi stuff. they say they are "Pro-Life" when they are against abortion, they say they are telling the truth by lying in your face. They win because evryone steps back and let them take what they want.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:15 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit @jeffowski Very few know its nazi origins, and you didn't until this thread.
     Problem is that the author didn't just make this single comic, but has been prolific in churning out his racist vile shit, in his style (eg you would recognize any one of his other comics as similar to the one jeff used).
     So now we've got a situation where Jeff introduces the art style of a nazi as an anti-theocratic / antifascist element, making it harder for us to push back on nazi shit.
     "it's just a meme"

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:15 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski do you know the streisand-effect?

     H.P. Lovecraft was racist, i love the Cthulhu Mythos. should we burn his books?

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:16 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit Yes, nazis have made a lot of things. Like assult rifles. And it used to be encouraged to use assault rifles on nazis.

     Problem is that if you take [comics made by nazis to spread nazism into the general population] and "co-opt them by saying something different", the main effect won't be changing minds about whether nazis are good or bad, but making people less likely to identify nazi propaganda: "That can't be nazi shit, I saw @jeffowski use it and he's not a nazi."

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:16 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski How many people do you think know who exactly made that comic? and how many learned it from you?

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:18 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit
     • Lüminism

     @TheOneSwit @l This is less of a "a right-winger used this template for meme once," and more of an "a literal nazi created the cartoon @jeffowski used as a meme template" situation.

   • Embed this notice
     L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ (mabande@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:18 JST L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     in reply to

     • TheOneSwit

     @TheOneSwit *taps mic*
     Hello? Is this thing on?
     No snappy comeback about how habituating normies to nazi imagery and dog whistles is a Good Thing, achually?
     Or did you realize that @jeffowski was not in the clear here?

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:18 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski

     Nazis will use evrything to defeat their opponents. They even use the democracy to defeat us. "Nazis" have build and used a lot of things, they will take evrything what they can to integrate it in their ideologie, dont let them. 🤷

   • Embed this notice
     TheOneSwit (theoneswit@det.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:19 JST TheOneSwit

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
     • Henrik Schönemann

     @lavaeolus @Mabande @jeffowski oh no a rightwinger used a meme and now it's toxic. Just let the rightwingers have it and give em what they want and never use it again.

   • Embed this notice
     Henrik Schönemann (lavaeolus@fedihum.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Nov-2024 02:04:21 JST Henrik Schönemann

     in reply to

     • L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ

     @Mabande @jeffowski
     "Use memes to your heart's delight, but when you use some nazi shit you will get pushback." - that's 100% it