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   on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 22:00:53 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
   free software fans when they have finally spent enough years writing free software API wrappers to be able to play proprietary games made by the worst companies on the planet
   • Embed this notice
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 22:02:58 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     in reply to

     • waifu
     @waifu the free software world will never have their own 'battle raper'
   • Embed this notice
     waifu (waifu@mai.waifuism.life)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 22:03:00 JST waifu

     in reply to

     @lain@lain.com they should have just made their own games

   • Embed this notice
     I am Water (slicerdicer@friedcheese.us)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 22:12:44 JST I am Water

     in reply to
     @lain Yeah but I quit playing games over a decade ago.
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     H. Faust (hfaust@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 22:37:27 JST H. Faust

     in reply to
     @lain Sorry, I only play quality open source games https://taisei-project.org/media
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
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     uoh (uoh@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Saturday, 12-Oct-2024 23:44:15 JST uoh

     in reply to
     @lain
     I think it's a good thing in the sense that games are worth perserving. Even if at the time they have a shit ass DRM/license, they should outlive their scummy publishers.
     
     On a personal level, if you just use these wrappers as a GPL condom to play [CURRENT GAME] on Linux, you may as well use Windows and call it a day.
     
     PS
     Always remind Linus that he's *just* an engineer.
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2024 19:39:03 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @lain Why would a wrapper make proprietary software free?
     
     That's what open sores fans think really.
     
     Free software fans play free games instead, although that often is a free re-implementation.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2024 19:42:42 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • uoh
     @uoh The GNU family of licenses is not like a virus - you cannot catch the freedom like a std - it's only if you explicitly choose to take a piece that the freedom grows like a spider plant.
     
     If you write a wrapper of the GPLv3-or-later program, that wrapper is a derivative work of the program and your program is a derivative work of the wrapper - therefore you must release the whole thing under the GPLv3-or-later or a compatible license.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2024 19:43:45 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • uoh
     @uoh Linus only develops the kernel, Linux, which is apparently partially licensed under the GPLv2-only and partially licensed under numerous proprietary licenses - clearly Linus doesn't care about freedom.
   • Embed this notice
     kakafarm (kakafarm@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2024 19:52:32 JST kakafarm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @lain I like cellophane wrappers.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 13-Oct-2024 19:52:32 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • kakafarm
     @kakafarm Based and non-microplastic GPLv3-compatible pilled.
   • Embed this notice
     uoh (uoh@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 14-Oct-2024 20:28:33 JST uoh

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     Not sure how it relates to what I said, and dead wrong
     
     API calls/syscalls (the things the wrapper actually envelopes for the game) are not covered by any license nor are they copyrightable for that matter.
     
     So the wrapper is not required to assume the copyright of neither the target OS the host OS or the game.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 14-Oct-2024 20:28:33 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • uoh
     @uoh API calls as a concept is not covered by copyright, so you're free to re-implement the API of a GPLv3-or-later library, delete the library and use your own re-implementation.
     
     Although, writing a program that uses a library is functionally writing an extension to that library, whether you statically or dynamically link (as the instruction pointer goes over instructions in the extension program, then jumps to the library program and then jumps back to the extension program, all in a single stream of instructions (or multiple if multithreaded) that cannot be broken without making the program nonfunctional).
     
     Therefore, if you write an extension to a GPLv3-or-later, that extension must be licensed under a compatible license, or you are infringing copyright.
     
     I don't see what SYSCALLs have to do, as Linux is not relevant, as most programs do not call Linux directly, rather programs interface with glibc, which calls Linux SYSCALLs or GNU Hurd ones as necessary.
     
     Linux does give an exception to the uapi header files for the SYSCALLs, but as for SYSCALLs themselves, that exception text makes a claim that "normal system calls" 'does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work"', but unprofessionally fails to give an exception in the case that they do, thus it could be that certain userspace programs of Linux are derivative works and need to be under a compatible license (see LICENSES/exceptions/Linux-syscall-note).
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Oct-2024 00:16:34 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • uoh
     @uoh There has been no case as of yet, which is why I wrote "could be".
     
     Even if such software shouldn't be considered a derivative work, that doesn't mean that the law won't find it to be.
     
     
     That proprietary malware is really running on GNU, although WINE talks to glibc, which talks to Linux.
     
     WINE is a re-implementation of the windows API that don't contain any code from windows,
     
     The following is what WINE depends on or is derivative of (yes gnutls, GNU bison, GNU gettext and GNU binutils)
     `-- app-emulation/wine-vanilla-9.16 ~amd64
     `-- x11-libs/libXcursor-1.2.2 (x11-libs/libXcursor) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXfixes-6.0.1 (x11-libs/libXfixes) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXi-1.8.1 (x11-libs/libXi) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXrandr-1.5.4 (x11-libs/libXrandr) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXrender-0.9.11 (x11-libs/libXrender) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXxf86vm-1.1.5 (x11-libs/libXxf86vm) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/libglvnd-1.7.0 (media-libs/libglvnd) amd64 [X abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/mesa-24.2.0 (media-libs/mesa) ~amd64 [osmesa abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.6 (x11-libs/libXcomposite) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXinerama-1.1.5 (x11-libs/libXinerama) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- net-print/cups-2.4.10 (net-print/cups) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/fontconfig-2.15.0 (media-libs/fontconfig) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- virtual/krb5-0-r1 (virtual/krb5) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- net-fs/samba-4.20.2 (net-fs/samba) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/libsdl2-2.30.3 (media-libs/libsdl2) ~amd64 [haptic joystick abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- net-libs/gnutls-3.8.7.1-r1 (net-libs/gnutls) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/freetype-2.13.3 (media-libs/freetype) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-apps/dbus-1.15.8 (sys-apps/dbus) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/libv4l-1.28.1 (media-libs/libv4l) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/vulkan-loader-1.3.290.0 (media-libs/vulkan-loader) ~amd64 [X? wayland? abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libX11-1.8.10 (x11-libs/libX11) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libXext-1.3.6 (x11-libs/libXext) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/alsa-lib-1.2.12 (media-libs/alsa-lib) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- net-libs/libcapi-3.2.3 (net-libs/libcapi) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/libgphoto2-2.5.31-r2 (media-libs/libgphoto2) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- dev-libs/glib-2.78.6 (dev-libs/glib) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/gst-plugins-base-1.22.11-r1 (media-libs/gst-plugins-base) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/gstreamer-1.22.11 (media-libs/gstreamer) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- dev-db/unixODBC-2.3.12 (dev-db/unixODBC) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- virtual/opencl-3-r3 (virtual/opencl) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- net-libs/libpcap-1.10.4 (net-libs/libpcap) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-libs/libpulse-17.0 (media-libs/libpulse) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-gfx/sane-backends-1.2.1 (media-gfx/sane-backends) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-apps/pcsc-lite-2.0.1-r1 (sys-apps/pcsc-lite) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- virtual/libudev-251-r2 (virtual/libudev) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-libs/llvm-libunwind-18.1.8 (sys-libs/llvm-libunwind) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-libs/libunwind-1.8.1 (sys-libs/libunwind) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- dev-libs/libusb-1.0.27-r1 (dev-libs/libusb) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- dev-libs/wayland-1.23.0-r1 (dev-libs/wayland) ~amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- x11-libs/libxkbcommon-1.7.0-r1 (x11-libs/libxkbcommon) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-kernel/linux-headers-6.10 (sys-kernel/linux-headers) ~amd64
     `-- x11-base/xorg-proto-2024.1 (x11-base/xorg-proto) ~amd64
     `-- app-emulation/wine-desktop-common-20150204-r1 (app-emulation/wine-desktop-common) amd64
     `-- games-emulation/dosbox-0.75_pre4302 (games-emulation/dosbox) amd64
     `-- games-emulation/dosbox-staging-0.81.1 (games-emulation/dosbox-staging) ~amd64
     `-- app-emulation/wine-gecko-2.47.4 (app-emulation/wine-gecko) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- media-plugins/gst-plugins-meta-1.20.6 (media-plugins/gst-plugins-meta) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- app-emulation/wine-mono-9.2.0 (app-emulation/wine-mono) ~amd64
     `-- dev-lang/perl-5.40.0 (dev-lang/perl) ~amd64
     `-- dev-perl/XML-LibXML-2.21.0 (dev-perl/XML-LibXML) amd64
     `-- sec-policy/selinux-wine-2.20240226-r2 (sec-policy/selinux-wine) amd64
     `-- sys-fs/udisks-2.10.1 (sys-fs/udisks) amd64
     `-- sys-devel/binutils-2.43-r1 (sys-devel/binutils) ~amd64
     `-- sys-devel/lld-18.1.8 (sys-devel/lld) amd64
     `-- sys-devel/bison-3.8.2-r2 (sys-devel/bison) ~amd64
     `-- sys-devel/flex-2.6.4-r6 (sys-devel/flex) amd64
     `-- virtual/pkgconfig-3 (virtual/pkgconfig) amd64
     `-- dev-util/mingw64-toolchain-12.0.0 (>=dev-util/mingw64-toolchain-10.0.0_p1-r2) amd64 [abi_x86_32(-)? abi_x86_64(-)?]
     `-- sys-devel/gettext-0.22.5 (sys-devel/gettext) ~amd64
     `-- dev-util/wayland-scanner-1.23.0 (dev-util/wayland-scanner) ~amd64
     `-- app-portage/elt-patches-20240824 (>=app-portage/elt-patches-20240116) ~amd64
     `-- sys-devel/gnuconfig-20240728 (sys-devel/gnuconfig) ~amd64
     `-- dev-build/automake-1.17-r1 (>=dev-build/automake-1.17-r1) ~amd64
     `-- dev-build/automake-1.16.5-r2 (>=dev-build/automake-1.16.5) amd64
     `-- dev-build/autoconf-2.72-r1 (>=dev-build/autoconf-2.72-r1) ~amd64
     `-- dev-build/autoconf-2.71-r7 (>=dev-build/autoconf-2.71-r6) amd64
     `-- dev-build/libtool-2.4.7-r4 (>=dev-build/libtool-2.4.7-r3) amd64
   • Embed this notice
     uoh (uoh@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Oct-2024 00:16:35 JST uoh

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     Can you cite case law to back that up?
     
     Because in the wild I see proprietary software running on Linux user-space and same thing with KMODS.
     
     Don't bother answering I do not care for legalistic arguments. I am arguing that such software _shouldn't_ be considered derivative work anyway.
     
     Got a better question for you,
     If I run the The Sims on Linux with wine (which loosely translates Windows syscalls to Linux ones), which software is wine a derivative of?