Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 04:40:19 JST Sick Sun
   can I get some documentation that russia is shooting its own troops to prevent retreat
   • Embed this notice
     Linux Walt (@lnxw37j1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw37j1@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 09:51:33 JST Linux Walt (@lnxw37j1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     @sun I don't know how one would document this. I've seen a few BBC interview videos where the interviewee made this claim (I suppose it must be based on reports from POWs), but yeah.
     
     This includes reports of a group of "Chechnyan volunteers" behind the borderline in Kursk, who quickly retreated, leaving untrained and unmotivated conscripts to face experienced Ukrainian soldiers once it was clear that the conscripts would quickly be swept aside, leaving them to fight.
     
     Maybe drone video?
   • Embed this notice
     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 11:02:47 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     What are your criteria for sources to count as "documentation"?
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 11:42:57 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • simsa03
     @simsa03 great question, I don't know. I want to see the source people are using, and evaluate it.
     Fediverse Contractor and Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 like this.
   • Embed this notice
     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 12:04:56 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     So you would not insist, e.g., on government reports or orders, I presume. Which is a relief. Well, for a start, the term for the phenomenon you're talking about is "barrier troops". It has been a common practice in various armies throughout history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops
     
     The presumption that the Russian army uses barrier troops in their war in Ukraine is often based on Ukrainian media reports which Western media then reciprocate.
     
     Another source seems to be video evicence by Russian soldiers accusing their own commanders of the use of such troops https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/russian-soldiers-commanders-used-barrier-troops-stop-retreating
     
     Personnally, if I had to assess the veracity of such claims, I would rather go with Russian reports than with Ukrainian ones. Not that I don't trust Ukrainian sources, but methodologically it seems a better practice to rely on information about Russian army behaviour when Russian sources talk about it.
     Linux Walt (@lnxw37j1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} and Sick Sun like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 12:07:26 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • simsa03
     @simsa03 Thank you, this is an area I don't know anything about.
     simsa03 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Thursday, 03-Oct-2024 12:27:43 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     The Wikipedia article on barrier troops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops has a paragraph on Russian army barrier troops in the Ukraine war ("Russian Ground Forces") covering the years 2022 and 2023. The paragraph has sources, that, e.g., cite the British MoD which calls the use of barrier troops "likely". Perhaps check these sources for your own.
     Linux Walt (@lnxw37j1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} and Sick Sun like this.