Sara Joy :happy_pepper:
"I’ve talked about various possible technical solutions, but I think the most pressing issue is the discourse that needs to be fixed.
We need to recognize that clichés, sermons, insults and righteousness have failed.
We need to reconcile with mutual respect sharing the common goal of making the web usable, accessible, secure and safe for everyone."
https://molily.de/something-went-wrong
(@molily)
esmevane, sorry
@sarajw Yeah. I appreciate some nuance about this topic. I think the routine blasting of "react" and "js" is like... I don't know, blanket insults? And usually from folks with a lot of expertise and reach? That sucks. It's just gonna make people feel bad.
There's upsides to React, the JSX model is a huge boost over writing templates. It DOES help view composition. Stuff like that.
But the React core team is doing weird stuff. I don't trust it either! Server components & directives? What?
Sara Joy :happy_pepper:
What I find hardest about the current state of things is that I myself am being further polarised into the camp that wants the web platform to shine and is deeply suspicious of React WHILE being in a job where I am using and coding in React on the daily.
This isn't about to change any time soon, as I really like the company, I want to stay, and there is plenty of good work I can do to simplify JS (where CSS can replace it) and make accessible what ends up in the DOM once React has put it there.
esmevane, sorry
@sarajw As someone who loves React, I can go on for like, days, about the weird direction of it all. I'm looking for an escape plan that is mostly JSX + Signals, because I think I'm seeing that those are the good design metaphors, the things that will outlast React itself.
But in the meantime, it IS "the platform" for a lot of folks, and it's almost like arguing about Java at this point.
It won't work - people will just feel yelled at until "this is better" ALSO becomes "this is obvious".
esmevane, sorry
@sarajw I agree. Like, the single file component model is so good. I love Astro a whole lot, and don't really need React at all in it. And wow, the latest stuff in Lit / custom elements just amazes me.
I think you shared a link a few days ago and it had this in it https://open-props.style/and I've had that open ever since haha.
I've been telling people about CSS variable tokens vs. tailwind for so long. I mean, the root tech is so incredible these days.
Sara Joy :happy_pepper:
@ironchamber Yep! But I think by now there are lots of even better ways that some of these other frameworks aid composition, and compile to static stuff when it should be static, and dynamic when not, and all that. But JSX was possibly first in this specific JS environment to do it.
Rather than, like the article says - either it all being in the hydration layer or briefly shown static and then poof! It's gone.
esmevane, sorry
@sarajw Haha yeah! 🤝
Re: your first post, I am super relieved this article is getting shared. I feel the same way.
Like, as devs, often our actual software understanding is shaped by our emotional / empathic ability. If we don't "get it", it's harder for us to do.
So starting with a derisive tone, that's bad for obvious reasons. But, I think it also shows an audience a good reason to suspect that the person speaking doesn't "get it". And they might not! Changing process/tools isn't zero cost
Sara Joy :happy_pepper:
@ironchamber looks like we fully agree :)
I mean I'm hoping React is starting to see sense and will eventually make a mostly static thing that updates stuff where needed - like it ought to be.
Why we need a virtual DOM I still don't really understand tbh, when the JS can directly manipulate the page as it is.
I daresay there's lots of deeply clever stuff in there - I just like my fronty-front-end of styles and DOM and accessibility trees and would just prefer it took fewer MB to get there.
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