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   Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:41 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

   Utterly bonkers.

   #EV #Hydrogen

   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:35 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Felichs

     @felichsdakatze Now, 1000km of range in an ICE would actually be useful because they are a pain to refuel - you have to actually spend time driving to a petrol station, whereas the EV is automatically fully charged over night while parked outside my house.

     feld likes this.
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     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:36 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Felichs

     @felichsdakatze I have been driving a VW ID.3 for the past 3 years - 260 miles of range and I've honestly not seen any need for over 200. It is exceedingly rare that I would want to drive more than 200 miles without stopping, if only for a pee. So I plug in when I stop - it's extremely rare that I have to stop to charge, charging is just something that happens when I am stopped for other reasons.

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     Felichs (felichsdakatze@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:38 JST Felichs

     in reply to

     @steve
     Maybe the thinking is that kind of range to start with would give good range still in a few years as the battery degrades.

     For me, current range limits on EVs are too low to be useful.

   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:38 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Felichs

     @felichsdakatze EV batteries really don't degrade much - the only EV that has had significant battery degredation is the Nissan Leaf, and that's because the battery management system has no thermal management. Basically every other car does not have that problem and doesn't suffer from significant degredation.

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     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:39 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Felichs

     @felichsdakatze why would you even want 1000km/charge? I've never even owned an ICE that could do that (and an ICE really needs more range than an EV due to the inconvenience of fuelling it)

   • Embed this notice
     Felichs (felichsdakatze@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:21:40 JST Felichs

     in reply to

     @steve
     In Japan it seems hybrids are the dominant "green" cartech. Hydrogen is fairly limited in uptake, and it seems more like an extended, early adoption experiment.

     In practice, hybrids solve a lot of problems, keep fuel consumption down, while allowing decent range. If all ICE only cars were replaced with hybrids, I'd call that a decent mid term win.

     I have a suspicion that Toyota won't have a presence in EV until they can get range equivance ie upwards of 1000+km per charge.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:23:59 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Hypx
     @steve @Hypx transporting and storing hydrogen is a pain though. This is very interesting as a solution, but I'm not optimistic
     
     https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2024/08/iron-as-an-inexpensive-storage-medium-for-hydrogen.html
   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:24:09 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Hypx

     @Hypx A 100% renewable grid will, of course, have peaks where there is excess power. Using those peaks to generate H2 is a great idea. But there are a number of industries that *require* H2 to decarbonise, whereas transport does not, so far more sensible to use that H2 for those industries instead of wasting it on transport which could have charged directly from that excess power.

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     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:24:10 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Hypx

     @Hypx So for a BEV, you're in a situation where the energy used to charge the battery has usually come straight from the generator, but occasionally from storage for the rare situation where the car needs to charge *right now*. If hydrogen is used for storage, it doesn't need to be moved around, which saves a whole load of energy.

     Conversely, for a FCEV, you're going through the energy storage steps for *every mile* you drive. And the H2 you're using has to be transported to the fuel station.

   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:24:12 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Hypx

     @Hypx It only takes a small amount of critical thought to realise that's not true. Assuming a 100% renewable grid: I need my computer when I'm in work, and I want my dinner at dinner time, so if the wind isn't blowing at those times, some storage is needed. But it is rare to need a car to charge at a specific time - cars charge when there is spare power available on the grid so rarely any need to store energy between generation and delivery to the car.

   • Embed this notice
     Hypx (hypx@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:24:13 JST Hypx

     in reply to

     @steve This is just BEV propaganda. There is very little difference in efficiency comparing BEVs to FCEVs.

     This becomes more obvious when you realize that BEVs cannot magically absorb energy made from wind and solar. You need a purpose built grid, one with huge amounts of energy storage, to be able to reach 100% renewable energy. But that requires hydrogen as part of the grid. So efficiency is not as high as you think.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:39:00 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Hypx
     @steve @Hypx it was never a good idea, you have to waste so much electricity vs just charging the battery
   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:39:01 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Hypx
     • feld

     @feld @Hypx I'm honestly not sure why anyone is pursuing H2 for cars now - a few years ago it was debatable but now the BEV has very clearly won, primarily because they didn't require any new infrastructure to be useful (I believe there are 14 H2 filling stations in the UK, compared to a very conservative estimate of maybe a billion sockets that you could charge a car from - 30 million homes + office buildings, maybe 20-30 power sockets in the average home, more in an office building.)

   • Embed this notice
     Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺 (steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:39:03 JST Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

     in reply to

     • Hypx
     • feld

     @feld @Hypx It seems likely to me that big industry that requires H2 will generate it on site. I think the kit required to generate H2 is well beyond what you could install at a fuel station though, so H2 for cars is going to need to be transported long distances.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 09:06:04 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Felichs
     @steve @felichsdakatze I dream of a day when you only need to charge at traditional oil change intervals.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 09:06:54 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Hypx
     @steve @Hypx and we can't really use pipelines because of the embrittlement problem