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   Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Thursday, 05-Sep-2024 10:48:22 JST Alexandre Oliva

   in reply to

   • Luis Villa
   shall we talk about the US threats to block TikTok when it wasn't under its control, and where that fits in this democracy <---> dictatorship pendulum, and compare that with how other banana republics resist imperialistic cultural colonialism?
   • Embed this notice
     Luis Villa (luis_in_brief@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 05-Sep-2024 10:48:23 JST Luis Villa

     in reply to

     • J. Nathan Matias 🦣

     @natematias not an expert either—and I suspect that given the regular pendulum of dictatorship <-> democracy in the region, it's likely that the topic simply isn't well-developed (either judicially or academically) in the way Americans expect.

     Which might be reason for American civil libertarians, resting comfortably on 250 years of history, to be humble in their assertions of what is Best in places where democracy is more precarious. But uh... that's not what I'm seeing.

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     J. Nathan Matias 🦣 (natematias@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 05-Sep-2024 10:48:24 JST J. Nathan Matias 🦣

     in reply to

     • Luis Villa

     @luis_in_brief yeah, this is less a response to Lessig directly as it is a response to how people think and talk about that aspect of Lessig's writing.

     Musk's attempt to rebuff Brazilian law because he has satellites is obviously naive—in interesting ways.

     And yes to your other points. I too would be very interested to read more of a summary and review about speech law and Latin American political history. It's something I wish I understood more.

   • Embed this notice
     Luis Villa (luis_in_brief@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 05-Sep-2024 10:48:25 JST Luis Villa

     in reply to

     • J. Nathan Matias 🦣

     @natematias it is interesting that you tag that as “code is law”! In my reading, Lessig’s formulation acknowledged—even in the heady days of 1998(?)—that “east coast code” and “west coast code” were interdependent. So I associate the phrase with the claim that code is *a* law, not with the claim that code is *the* law.

     Maybe I need to put on my housing hat and write “code is (zoning) law”, emphasizing that software code’s legal role is real, but a creature of layered systems?

   • Embed this notice
     J. Nathan Matias 🦣 (natematias@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 05-Sep-2024 10:48:27 JST J. Nathan Matias 🦣

     • Luis Villa

     I think we're seeing a decline in the idea that Code is Law. It was an interesting idea while it lasted, and there are still a *lot* of unaccountable infrastructures that are effectively making & enforcing private legislation. But technology is ultimately managed by people, and those people are subject to laws.

     If you want a just society, there's no getting around politics; you need good laws and trustworthy governments to carry them out.

     cc @luis_in_brief

     https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/03/world/americas/brazil-starlink-elon-musk-x.html?utm_source=press.coop