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   Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:40 JST Charnock

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   • Kera Vortiwife
   • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
   • Moreau Vazh

   Said in the manner of Basil Rathbone speaking to Nigel Bruce doing the "There's an east wind coming all the same" speech @zozo @ZDL @Taskerland

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     Kera Vortiwife (zozo@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:41 JST Kera Vortiwife

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     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @ZDL @Taskerland i do it for the girls with their crumbs on their bed, ageing bisexual goths, and a small but beloved coterie of cis people who are confused but having a good time regardless

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:42 JST Charnock

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     All my recent gaming purchases seem to involve sexually charged vampire aberrant horror subcultures with distinct lack of ferals for some reason. No idea who's fault that is.

     @ZDL @Taskerland @zozo

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:48 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

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     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo That was the end game for me, too. I occasionally pick up new rules if people I trust recommend them to me. (But even this backfires. C.f. my picking up Savage Worlds on strong recommendations only to wind up actively hating it.)

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:49 JST Charnock

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     • Kera Vortiwife
     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     That's fair I kept on playing I just stopped going to shops or reading magazines.

     @ZDL @Taskerland @zozo

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:50 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo D20 didn't kill my interest in RPGs, but it killed my interest in the industry.

     Rather like PbtA is doing now, actually.

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:51 JST Charnock

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     • Kera Vortiwife
     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     I think by the mid 80s, we'd just drifted that way by default after a slew of experimental and different games, your own house rules blur into just narrativism. The D20 era was what really killed my interest in RPGs though. @ZDL @Taskerland @zozo

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:52 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo For the earliest pure break from wargames that I know of, the Maelstrom game (later Story Engine) from Hubris was a good example. It had no stats. No skills. No levels. Combat wasn't resolved in incremental rounds. Instead entire *scenes* were resolved through cooperative effort on each "side". (It gets a bit more complicated than that with cut scenes, etc. but only a bit.)

     It is the first absolute severing of wargames that I know of.

     🧵 (2/2)

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:53 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

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     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo LoC I could never warm up to, and MM&M was a distant dream to me.

     LoC was pretty early in the scheme of things: 1984. It was certainly not as wargamey as a dungeon crawler, but it wasn't really a "fiction first" game either. It was at the beginnings of the move away from wargames, but still dragged a lot of assumptions along like character growth by defeating foes, levels, etc.

     Tom Moldvay tried hard, but wasn't quite able to leave D&D behind him.

     🧵 (1/n)

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:54 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo Well earlier games were more oriented toward "simulation" because they came from wargames. But I, too, came at them from the "drama flake" side of things and found the wargamey stuff boring, favouring the character and story stuff (often to the frustration of the players who were optimizers).

     It took nearly two decades before games started coming out that explicitly parted ways with the wargames roots and that's when I came into my own!

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:54 JST Charnock

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     See I played Lords of Creation, Man Myth and Magic.. all seemed rulesy but not wargamey. LoC in particular was very theatrical. MM&M was pre-Nephilim in the endless reincarnation. I don't know how early that all was in the scheme of things. @ZDL @Taskerland @zozo

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:55 JST Charnock

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
     • Moreau Vazh

     Ah. What I always thought games were.

     @ZDL @Taskerland @zozo

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     🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦 (zdl@gamerplus.org)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:56 JST 🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Printdevil @Taskerland @zozo Powered by the Apocalypse. A set of games built to a specific attitude that treats as a new discovery the notion that you can have games that aren't based on wargames but put, instead, the fiction first.

     You know, like *Maelstrom*/*Story Engine* from the '90s. Or conversations held in the pages of *Alarums & Excursions* since the late '80s or possibly even earlier.

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     Charnock (printdevil@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:54:57 JST Charnock

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     • Kera Vortiwife
     • Moreau Vazh

     @Taskerland @zozo I don't really know what PbtA is like, I'm just here because I want company and this looked like a long thread.

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     Moreau Vazh (taskerland@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:55:03 JST Moreau Vazh

     in reply to

     • Kera Vortiwife

     @zozo I can *completely* see that in your work 😆

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     Kera Vortiwife (zozo@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:55:04 JST Kera Vortiwife

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     • Moreau Vazh

     @Taskerland I always phrase it like "I don't make PbtA games but if this was high school my games would probably have a crush on PbtA"

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     Moreau Vazh (taskerland@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:55:05 JST Moreau Vazh

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     In fairness, I can see why someone might think that I'd be PbtA-friendly as I have read and internalised a lot of Forge-style Theory but I am a Forgite in the sense that a Satanist is a Christian; There is a shared metaphysics but my goals, preferences, and ideals are completely different.

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     Moreau Vazh (taskerland@dice.camp)'s status on Sunday, 01-Sep-2024 23:55:07 JST Moreau Vazh

     Got my first 'You should try Apocalypse World' comment. Feels like a rite of passage.

     I'll get right on that... Right after I buy a copy of the Watch Tower.