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   Alon (alon@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 21:36:34 JST Alon

   • Jon
   • carl marks

   @jdp23 @tillshadeisgone That is anti-Semitic in a bunch of ways I don't want to get into (for one, AIPAC is rooted thoroughly in Americans with pro-Israel political opinions), because she also said much more than that - she explicitly talked about dual loyalties, which a bunch of Jews in @-replies tried explaining to her before she shut everything down with her "I have Jewish friends" bullshit (those Jewish friends in question believe in a doctors' plot, one that Ahmed Tibi called anti-Semitic).

   • Embed this notice
     Alon (alon@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 21:36:33 JST Alon

     in reply to

     • Jon
     • carl marks

     @jdp23 @tillshadeisgone (Separately, authoritarian regimes and democratic backsliders love accusing NGOs of being foreign agents; Bibi does it, Orbán does it, etc.)

     It was not a narrow point about FARA, because then technical arguments about whether AIPAC is truly an Israel lobby would count (it isn't - it doesn't advocate for Israel's position in trade disputes). Instead, it became purely emotive: AIPAC is bad because it's part of the Jewish dual loyalties. This is why tech.lgbt was right.

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     carl marks (tillshadeisgone@blackqueer.life)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 21:36:33 JST carl marks

     in reply to

     • Jon

     @Alon @jdp23

     Okay, I had no idea who the "she" was you were talking about, and now I understand.

     I went back and looked at her posts from the past few days, and I completely disagree with your characterization of what she said. She repeatedly stated that she was talking about AIPAC the organization, and even corrected people who accused her of talking about Jewish people. She stated that she specifically was NOT equating AIPAC with all Jewish folks, something that I've seen come up before when people criticize Zionists.

     I also think that if an NGO that is explicitly in favor of a settler colonialist project like Israel, and said NGO is unseating domestic congressmembers with millions and millions of dollars in spending, precisely because said congressmembers have criticized said project for the genocide they are committing, then yes I think there's an argument to be made that the NGO is acting as an agent of said project AKA Israel.

     I mean, hell, the US uses NGOs for shit like that all the time, all over the world. And it sucks when we do it, too!

     Now, I actually don't think having AIPAC register under FARA is actually that helpful, because as has been pointed out, the roots of Zionism are in the United States organically. A lot of it is due to antisemitism and based in US imperialism and having AIPAC under FARA isn't going to change anything about US imperialism. If the US lost access to AIPAC or became limited in how they could use it, they would just invent another org for the same purpose.

     What AIPAC is doing strikes me more as a symptom, so for me I think it would be more useful to go after, for example, campaign finance regulation instead. But I can see why Dr. Gebru made that argument, and I don't agree that it's antisemitic.

   • Embed this notice
     carl marks (tillshadeisgone@blackqueer.life)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 22:12:01 JST carl marks

     in reply to

     • Jon

     @Alon @jdp23 yeah, I looked at your profile and I can see that you're a Zionist, despite you carefully not mentioning it in this conversation. I also see that you have a lot of knowledge in certain areas of international politics but that you also have a habit of regurgitating neoliberal propaganda as if it was fact, including Zionist talking points. That might work with others, but it won't work with me.

     You're wrong about Zionism, you're wrong about AIPAC, and you're wrong about Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman. Oh, and you're wrong about Dr. Gebru. Have a good day!

   • Embed this notice
     Alon (alon@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 22:12:02 JST Alon

     in reply to

     • Jon
     • carl marks

     @tillshadeisgone @jdp23 The Jews who were criticizing her were on the non- to anti-Zionist spectrum. The Jews she was saying she is channeling as her comrades are the kind who repeat anti-Semitic conspiracy theories like the doctors' plot (this was Chanda Prescod-Weinstein; the conspiracy theory she was repeating was so dumb that Ahmed Tibi saw it and called it out for being anti-Semitic).

   • Embed this notice
     Alon (alon@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Aug-2024 22:12:02 JST Alon

     in reply to

     • Jon
     • carl marks

     @tillshadeisgone @jdp23 And as for AIPAC, *none* of how you characterize it is correct (nor Zionism - it's not an American project, it's a Central/Eastern European Jewish one). The line that it unseated two sitting members of Congress is repeated by AIPAC (to make itself look important) and by anti-Semites (to make Zionism look conspiratorial), and meanwhile, normal election analysts point out how both Bush and Bowman were not doing the district casework expected of the job, unlike Tlaib.