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   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:09:43 JST Paul Cantrell

   • wet forest moon folklorist

   An Israeli human rights group documents truly appalling treatment of Palestinian prisoners by Israeli forces (ht @seachanger):

   http://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:12:40 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Comparisons to many genocides pst are apt, and are not off limits — but the thing that immediately comes to my mind reading that is US treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:15:52 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Joe Biden gave a speech that barely seemed to make a wave at the time shortly after the Oct 7 attack in which he essentially said, “Hey Israel, look, the US did a lot of really stupid things after 9/11, and now you’re about to make the same mistakes.” I guess he called it.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:25:56 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Ah, here it is, Oct 18: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/10/18/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-october-7th-terrorist-attacks-and-the-resilience-of-the-state-of-israel-and-its-people-tel-aviv-israel/

     “But I caution this: While you feel that rage, don’t be consumed by it. After 9/11, we were enraged in the United States. And while we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes.” He goes on to warn against collective punishment and call for humanitarian aid for Gaza.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:29:57 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)

     @chiraag
     There was clearly some kind of internal battle going on at the White House: his public statements changed drastically and tone from day today in those early weeks. We won’t know for a decade or more of what was really going on, or how much what we heard was Biden‘s personal feelings versus diplomatic and political strategy.

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     ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him) (chiraag@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 15:29:58 JST ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)

     in reply to

     @inthehands And yet that didn't stop him from full-throttle support of the resulting "mistakes".

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 23:27:46 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Raven Onthill
     • ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)

     @ravenonthill @chiraag
     That’s the crux of it. Combine that with the fact that •perceived• lack of Biden admin support for Israel could lead to a MAGA authoritarian takeover in the US (cf what happened to Cori Bush), and you have a set of political constraints with no morally justifiable solution.

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     Raven Onthill (ravenonthill@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 09-Aug-2024 23:27:47 JST Raven Onthill

     in reply to

     • ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)

     @inthehands @chiraag there's also the problem that Netanyahu and Sinwar were determined to have their war (still are), and Israel is not wholly dependent on US support.