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   Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:13:25 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

   • David Gorski, MD, PhD
   it's almost the end of the day
   but here's a series of breadcrumbs to consider
   
   @gorskon documenting one doctor, and his ignorance
   https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2007/01/18/oh-the-shame-again/
   who is a fellow of the #discoveryinstitute
   who is one of the organizations who is on the advisory board of project 2025
   https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x7ek071oiz101its3br6k/Project-2025-Advisory-Board.xlsx?rlkey=65rqha2rhc7zv8h9v0ryg63dj&e=2&st=3jf8ev8f&dl=0
   who of course JD vance is directly involved in promoting at the highest levels
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:13:24 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @gorskon I read about half of this, and here's a good example of why this blog post is silly and not saying anything:
     >poor understanding of evolution among medical students is becoming increasingly a problem.
     Why? The practice of medicine has basically nothing to do with evolutionary biology. Systems and biochemical feedback loops, sure. Knowing the similarities of those across multiple species is irrelevant for anyone who isn't a veterinarian or regularly dealing with animal bites (in which case you phone a friend or consult a reference manual).
     
     He spends the first 10% of the blog talking about how the guy is probably a very talented doctor before he switches tone towards bashing him for not being on board with darwinism (he also criticized the use of the phrase). That doc used an update of the IRREDUCIBLE COMPLEXITY argument isn't my favorite, but not unreasonable given it's functionally a gish gallop— lay out your evidence against my claim in great detail so that I may pick it apart. But ID can absolutely be scientific, and there's actually a movement of people interested in specifically that. Testable alternative hypothesis should be explored. Anything else isn't science.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:32:52 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @gorskon You're being pretentious and shitty right now. This is the eggheaded version of the schizo poster who tells me viruses didn't real and I need to watch an hour of bitchute videos to understand why. Maybe if the author didn't write like an early 2000s edgelord (read: atheism is no longer controversial and doesn't need snark), I would've made it through more than half the article.
     
     >virology
     Okay and what % of doctors are virologists? Not all of them even go to medical school because when you're doing deep research into post doc work it isn't as big of a deal. The argument is likely as retarded or worse as IRREDUCIBLE COMPLEXITY.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:32:53 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @BowsacNoodle @gorskon
     
     > The practice of medicine has basically nothing to do with evolutionary biology.
     
     His other articles(that he links to) detail around 4 different arguments for why.
     
     > Knowing the similarities of those across multiple species is irrelevant
     
     No, it's not, and he explains why in those previous articles
     
     > for anyone who isn't a veterinarian or regularly dealing with animal bites
     
     No, it's not. One of the first things you do when you have a virus to study in virology is to find a 'model' - ie a host that will be susceptible that isn't a human one, but which you can test for treatments for. That's just virology - he gives other examples at the level of cell biology. It's a fundamental tool in the science of medicine.
     
     > But ID can absolutely be scientific,
     
     It could be, but it isn't
     
     > and there's actually a movement of people interested in specifically that
     
     Most of which is a fraud to make teaching of religious bullshit in schools.
     
     > Testable alternative hypothesis should be explored.
     
     Sure. And I've even seriously considered putting together a grant proposal to the discovery institute, to really flesh out an idea of a computational basis for intelligent design that I had when I was a student, to pay my rent.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:41:15 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @gorskon I'm just blown away with how reductionist your counter "argument" is. You snip a sentence into multiple parts as if you couldn't reply to it without functionally copy pasting. It's just trash dude. The doctor doesn't do cell and molecular biology. 95% of doctors just see people and order labs. The know enough to know what to do and identify things at varying levels of efficacy. Them suddenly believing (not understanding, believing) in Darwinism (I'm doing this on purpose) isn't going to suddenly make them better.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:44:15 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @BowsacNoodle @gorskon
     
     > his is the eggheaded version of the schizo poster who tells me viruses didn't real and I need to watch an hour of bitchute videos to understand why
     
     Except in this case the case is for actual medical science and biology.
     
     > Maybe if the author didn't write like an early 2000s edgelord
     
     he *is* an early 2000s edgelord. The date on that post is from like 2007.
     
     >read: atheism is no longer controversial and doesn't need snark
     
     Atheists are still a trivially small minority in the US, canada and worldwide. It is very much 'controversial' when my king is also the head of a church, and when blasphemy was only taken off the books as a crime in canada a decade after the post above was made -- ie during the current Trudeau government's rule. It could easily be put back bay the CPC who is openly siding with evangelicals to bring canada back to its traditions (and it is, still indeed, a nation under allah on paper)
     
     > Okay and what % of doctors are virologists?
     
     Not enough, clearly given that the #3 cause of death is a virus, that also causes the #1 and #2 causes of death
     
     but as mentioned: there's other arguments given, from cell biology and above the level of viruses
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 14:48:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @gorskon >Criminalizing blasphemy
     God willing. You already have it with gender laws, might as well have it again for Christendom's original foundation.
     
     >Systemics and the lack thereof
     You know as well as I do that not many people are systemic thinkers. Doctors aren't exceptionally smart, although they do lean above average. If you want people to understand functional ground up medicine to be doctors, you're going to have a much bigger shortage of physicians and a return to quackery acceptance as people go to "not-a-doc" with the handsome charismatic former doctor who could talk to them like a human being instead of specializing in cell and molecular autism.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 15:00:26 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Trevor Goodchild:verified::pondering_orb:
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @gorskon @TrevorGoodchild I'd love to elaborate on why I don't agree but I will admit I pulled the 95% number out of my rear. Real numbers are probably closer to 50% or below. I can say with confidence that people's opinions on evolution won't hamper their ability to understand systems. Observe this one weird trick (Doctors HATE this):
     >"These systems and pathways are found in multiple animal species. Our Creator is so wise that He did that by choice".
     And just like that there's zero mental roadblock. Anyone in medical school "knows" enough about evolution to get an A in their bio class. I've taken graduate level biochem, and there's nothing in there that reinforced Evolution (see above). Mind you I was a pure materialist atheist at the time as well, so it's not like I wasn't looking.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 15:00:27 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • Trevor Goodchild:verified::pondering_orb:
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @BowsacNoodle > The doctor doesn't do cell and molecular biology. 95% of doctors just see people and order labs
     
     That % seems off, sounds like only talking about GPs/family doctors - but they should have an understanding of what's going on at the molecular level even so, as @gorskon argues in previous posts. If it was as 'reductionist' as you're suggesting being the 95%-kind-of-doctor wouldn't require any education at all, but it does. That education allows doctors to contextualize the results from that lab work. And in *that* understanding evolution seems to be important. Granted unlike @gorskon I'm not a doctor, so I can only go on what people like him say. Maybe you're right and there's a lot less to it than I give it credit for. That would be very odd, though.
     
     > Them suddenly believing (not understanding, believing) in Darwinism (I'm doing this on purpose) isn't going to suddenly make them better.
     
     Sure it can, and this thread is an additional reason why
     
     Because we live in an era where institutions like the discovery institute, and antivaxxers like @TrevorGoodchild push frauds onto the public.
     
     And the protection from those frauds are doctors who understand the fundamentals enough to know when people are being mislead.
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     Pontius_Humid (pontiusg@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 15:05:49 JST Pontius_Humid

     in reply to

     • Crux_Invictus
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @jeffcliff @Crux_Invictus @gorskon @BowsacNoodle Dead industries aren't remarked about these days. Give it, say 10_20 years. Wait for the creeps to close out their lives, and lies.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 15:05:50 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • Crux_Invictus
     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @Crux_Invictus @gorskon @BowsacNoodle if you have to quiz your doctor on the basics your local medical licensing authority has failed
     
     but they *are* failing big these days, so...
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     Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 15:05:51 JST Crux_Invictus

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • David Gorski, MD, PhD
     @BowsacNoodle @jeffcliff @gorskon >be me
     >have mild cold
     >go to GP
     >"Now, doc, before you write me that medical certificate I'm going to have to quiz you on the Darwinian theory of evolution"
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 21:59:58 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to
     @jeffcliff I am not writing disjointed thoughts around some central thesis; I am replying to your disjointed replies to my thoughts. You were the one who brought up biochem, no?
   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 21:59:59 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     > I've taken graduate level biochem, and there's
     
     Evolution doesn't happen at the biochem level. it happens exclusively *above* the biochem level. This is like thinking that evolution is going to help with understanding quantum physics - it doesn't. It helps with understanding what happens with biological systems which have evolved.
     
     > below. I can say with confidence that people's opinions on evolution won't hamper their ability to understand systems. Observe this one weird trick (Doctors HATE this):
     >>"These systems and pathways are found in multiple animal species. Our Creator is so wise that He did that by choice".
     
     They should hate it. That's intentional ignorance on the actual cause of things. The cause of things can matter to whether or not to, and how to treat problems with biological systems.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 30-Jul-2024 22:02:54 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     @jeffcliff And how do you miss my clickbait meme post...