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1. Embed this notice
   マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 05:26:32 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

   Warning - super long Japanese and Japanese music/lyrics post likely of interest to hardly anyone.

   When I was a music-obsessed teenager, practically all the English I learnt (before I moved to the UK) was through song lyrics. Now, I'm still music-obsessed and learning Japanese, but for a couple of obvious reasons (I am nearly half a century older, and Japanese is just not a easy to pick up as English, at least for a German speaker), this doesn't work so well anymore 😁

   Having said this, I often come across a song I like and then need to find out the lyrics. This absolutely gorgeous song by 橋本絵莉子波多野裕文(Eriko Hashimoto & Yufumi Hatano), アメリカンヴィンテージ (American Vintage), I found because I love Eriko Hashimoto's latest album so was looking for some of her earlier stuff and I couldn't stop listening to it.

   There is one word in all this that really confounds me (not for the first time) - 不思議 - because I can't figure out if it has positive or negative connotations, or (most likely) both - it means something like "wondrous", "marvellous", or "strange". And from the context of the lyrics it's also hard to tell - one voice says 不思議だね (it's strange/marvellous, isn't it), and the other voice replies 不思議じゃないよ (no, it isn't).

   As always when I post stuff like this here, if anyone that isn't as rubbish at Japanese as me has any useful input, I'd be very happy to hear 😊

   Anyway, a probably very bad attempt of a translation below. I took a few - probably misguided - liberties, since the text seems quite lyrical, so not always easy to translate literally.

   船が来るから、ここで待っていよう
   The ship is coming, so let's wait here
   海にアイロンをかけながら
   Ironing the sea as it sails in
   沈みかけた太陽がほら
   The sun is about to set
   またのぼってくるのよ
   It's rising again
   不思議だね
   It's strange/marvellous (*see above), isn't it.

   飛行機が飛ぶから、ここで見ていよう
   A plane is flying, so let's watch if from here
   おもちゃみたいだから
   It looks like a toy
   黒髪の先生に習った
   I learnt from a dark-haired teacher
   金髪の外国が好きなんだ
   To like blond foreigners
   (* I have no idea if these 2 last lines are correct)

   不思議だね
   It's strange/marvellous, isn't it
   不思議じゃないよ
   No, it isn't
   ほんとかな
   Is it true?
   君が言えばね
   If you say so

   ロケットが飛ぶから、乗ってみよう
   A rocket is flying, so let's ride it
   魂より速いから
   Because it's faster than the soul
   いつまでたっても
   Forever
   ボロボロの過去が好きなんだ
   I love my tattered past

   不思議だね
   It's strange/marvellous, isn't it
   不思議じゃないよ
   No, it isn't
   ほんとかな
   Is it true?
   君と居ればね
   As long as I'm with you

   船が来るから、ここで待っていよう
   The ship is coming, so let's wait here
   飛行機が飛ぶから、ここで見ていよう
   A plane is flying, so let's watch if from here
   ロケットが飛ぶから、乗ってみよう
   A rocket is flying, so let's ride it

   不思議だね
   It's strange/marvellous, isn't it

   https://youtu.be/FHYT_-VuP_0?si=5CWNVKm4XS66ZuOu&sfnsn=scwspmo

   • Embed this notice
     Robert Belton (shiawase@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 15:14:35 JST Robert Belton

     in reply to

     @mario
     Personally I don’t think that 不思議　has any negative feeling (despite that 不)
     Also I think that 不思議じゃないよ expresses assertion rather than negation, along the lines of it’s really wonderful don’t you think, in response to the more milder ね seeking agreement.
     I might be wrong of course. and claim no authority.
     2/2

   • Embed this notice
     Robert Belton (shiawase@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 15:14:35 JST Robert Belton

     in reply to

     @mario
     oh, where I usually came across this construction is バカじゃない、or バカじゃないよ
     meaning that’s idiotic, or, are you stupid or what? rather than that’s not stupid
     or indeed ばかじゃん in a certain tone of voice

   • Embed this notice
     マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 15:14:35 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

     in reply to

     • Robert Belton

     @shiawase thanks, that's all very helpful and interesting!

   • Embed this notice
     Robert Belton (shiawase@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 15:14:36 JST Robert Belton

     in reply to

     @mario
     fwiw when I’m faced with a word like this that I can’t get a handle on, I escalate from the quick and dirty edict based dictionaries to curated dictionaries (mac built in Wisdom and Super Daijirin) and ones with Japanese definitions. Children’s dictionaries being useful because they can be both simple and accurate for most words I’m likely to encounter. Usually with far better example usage examples too.
     1/2

   • Embed this notice
     マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 17:57:16 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

     in reply to

     • 秋田犬

     @akitadog thanks! 😊

   • Embed this notice
     秋田犬 (akitadog@mstdn.jp)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 17:57:17 JST 秋田犬

     in reply to

     @mario I think 不思議is mostly positive i.e. 'wonder' as you say and in this lyric. But it can have negative connotations of something being weird or off.

   • Embed this notice
     秋田犬 (akitadog@mstdn.jp)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 18:02:13 JST 秋田犬

     in reply to

     @mario Also I think 不思議じゃない can emphasise 不思議 (with a question mark tone) but adding よ at the end changes it to mean not 不思議

   • Embed this notice
     マリオ (Mario Menti) (mario@neko.cat)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 18:02:13 JST マリオ (Mario Menti)

     in reply to

     • 秋田犬

     @akitadog interesting, thanks! Japanese is hard 😂 (and I guess song lyrics can sometimes be even harder)