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   Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 02:12:11 JST Rabbit Cohen

   If you are a gentile, the chances are that you don't actually know what the terms "Zionist", "anti-Zionist", and "non-Zionist" mean. When a Jewish person calls themself a Zionist, it doesn't actually tell you that much about their position unless they go into more detail.

   • GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 02:12:11 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     Zionist beliefs range from "Jewish people belong in the Levant, preferably under an equitable and secular government" to "I support the state of Israel as it exists today". These are very, very different beliefs, but gentiles just assume that anyone who says they're a Zionist is a frothing Israeli nationalist.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:07:00 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     @BathysphereHat I feel like the conversation is so much past Zionism right now, though. Like, there are Kahanist cabinet members in the Netanyahu government, like Smotrich or Ben Gvir, who believe Gaza and the West Bank should be annexed and all Palestinians there killed or expelled. Let's agree to focus on the extremists who want to commit crimes against humanity first, and we can debate Ben-Yehuda's dubious place name policies after the bombs have stopped dropping.

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     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:07:01 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     I know people who self-ID as Zionists primarily because they don't think the 7 million Jews already in Israel should be displaced or killed.

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     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:07:02 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     And I don't accept it when people say "Well you need to adjust your language", because gentiles appropriated these Jewish words and redefined them.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:08:33 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     @BathysphereHat the eradicationists have a name.

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     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:57:07 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou
     • Ashley (she/they)

     @AshCarnelian @evan Right, like, the reason I'm talking about this is that Jews have a really hard time navigating social media without being harassed these days, and I feel a lot more qualified to talk about that than I do about the like actual details of Israeli politics.

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     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:57:07 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou
     • Ashley (she/they)

     @AshCarnelian @evan That said, I do think it would help if people learned the word "Kahanist", perhaps.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:57:07 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ashley (she/they)

     @BathysphereHat @AshCarnelian setting the dividing line around "Is Zionism valid?" puts mainstream moderates on the same side as the ultranationalists, with the other side very small. Setting it at "Should all Palestinians be starved and killed so Israel can annex Gaza and the West Bank?" puts moderates on the same side as anti-colonialist leftists, and isolates the eradicationists from pretty much everyone.

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     Ashley (she/they) (ashcarnelian@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 05:57:08 JST Ashley (she/they)

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou

     @evan @BathysphereHat I wish the conversation on social media, especially amongst the most loudly angry people, actually reflected that reality.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:11:12 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Ashley (she/they)

     @BathysphereHat @AshCarnelian I wonder if telling them that it's basically the popular front strategy developed by the Comintern in the 1920s and 1930s would help.

   • Embed this notice
     Rabbit Cohen (bathyspherehat@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 06:11:13 JST Rabbit Cohen

     in reply to

     • Evan Prodromou
     • Ashley (she/they)

     @evan @AshCarnelian Right. The trouble is that a lot of leftists are way, way too concerned with ideological purity to be willing to do that.