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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:15:09 JST 
Fish of Rage
I am a hypocrite because I use Telegram because it works so well. - kaia likes this.
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:15:50 JST 
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@sun XMPP would probably work better for you if you checked it more often. :blobfoxgooglytrash: -
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feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:19:35 JST 
feld
@tk @sun I tried running some XMPP servers a month ago and they're all still shit and so are the clients. Oh what's that, you want to be able to upload media? Now you need to run a webserver too.
Can't believe this is the state of things.Fish of Rage likes this. -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:20:20 JST
Fish of Rage
@tk It's buggy. -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:20:56 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@feld @sun It's really an artifact of XMPP coming about "too early". As in, the conventions we have today didn't exist back then.
Reminds me of why power, water, and sewage infrastructure is all shit in older cities: they got the versions of things from when we were still figuring shit out and continue to live with those versions to this day.
Also applies to the version of "democracy" we have in the US. :blobfoxgooglytrash: -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:21:21 JST
Fish of Rage
@feld @tk Beagle on MacOS:
I never set a pfp. I chatted with a friend of mine. Somehow their pfp transferred to my account and I have their pfp now.
wtf -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:22:10 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@sun @feld I've never seen anything like that.
I've noticed that XMPP clients on macOS and iOS are all hot garbage. Just ask @glitter . :blobfoxgoogly: -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:22:37 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
XMPP works about as well as the IM protocols of old (AIM, MSN Messenger, Yahoo! Messenger, etc.). The rest of the world has moved on while XMPP still keeps the old paradigms going. :blobfoxthinkgoogly: -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:22:48 JST
Fish of Rage
@tk @glitter @feld the least-worst one I've used is Pidgin. Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:23:05 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@sun @feld @glitter Makes me wonder if all non-commercial software in the Apple ecosystem is terrible. :blobfoxgooglytrash: -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:24:53 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@sun @glitter @feld I was going to bring up Adium, but it appears to be dead. :blobfoxgooglycry: -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:26:16 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
Anybody remember file transfer in the old IM protocols? I still have trauma to this day. :blobfoxscared: -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:30:31 JST 
Dushman
@feld@bikeshed.party @tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @sun@shitposter.world
Putting up a web server for it isn't hard though. I set up an xmpp server here and it's been working out pretty well, already had nginx cuz of fedi and other stuff. Configuring xmpp itself though can be confusing tbf.Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:31:28 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@dushman @sun @feld I'm pretty sure that ejabberd (which @glitter and I use) has a built-in Web server just for fire uploads. Didn't take much work to get it working. :blobfoxthinkgoogly: -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:34:05 JST
Dushman
@tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @sun@shitposter.world @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com
I set it up on prosody and snikket which is a frontend thingy that makes the setup a breezeDoughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:35:34 JST
Dushman
@tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @sun@shitposter.world @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com
It also comes with a web server but we have nginx already so I didn't use itDoughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:36:13 JST
Fish of Rage
@dushman @tk @feld @glitter one of the issue I ran into was exactly this, if you already had a webserver some of the things I tried couldn't be proxied so it was like "well I guess I won't use this shit" Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:42:26 JST
Fish of Rage
@dushman @tk @feld @glitter I don't know how to articulate it but most services should just be one port and one protocol. If you need to orchestrate services to make something work there are better and worse ways to do it. -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:42:28 JST
Dushman
@sun@shitposter.world @tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com
Made a standalone single cert for all the subdomains -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:42:29 JST
Dushman
@sun@shitposter.world @tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com
I ended up making my own compose without its web server or certbot and it worked fine -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:43:30 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@sun @glitter @feld @dushman Things are likely only this way for XMPP because it came about before modern conventions, including that one. Remember FTP? :blobfoxgooglymlem: -
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feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:43:54 JST
feld
@tk @glitter @dushman @sun I've run them all -- Mongoose/eJabberd, Prosody, Openfire...
Prosody is probably my favorite just for being weird Lua software and low resource usage.
I don't like fighting with XEPs and trying to figure out what I need to enable to make things work. And features like marking messages as Read and syncing that between devices requires adding an SQL server to the mix, so now the monster grows more complicated
Just give me an XMPP server with a standard set of features that absolutely cannot be changed and a quality XMPP client that works on iOS. I'll pay $100 for a license to a quality iOS/MacOS XMPP client that can rival Telegram. But it doesn't exist, so nobody is getting my money I guess.Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:44:33 JST
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
@feld @glitter @dushman @sun XMPP could probably use another major iteration like x86 → x86-64. The former had a bunch of bolt-on instruction sets, which the latter made part of the standard. :blobfox3c: -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:45:41 JST
Dushman
@sun@shitposter.world @tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com but most services should just be one port and one protocolMumble is like this and setting it up is an absolute breeze as a result. The server software is also very light.
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:45:57 JST
Fish of Rage
@tk @glitter @feld @dushman at this point yeah it's clear which extensions won and are useful Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Jul-2024 23:50:25 JST 
Phantasm
@tk @glitter @feld @dushman @sun It's because original Jabber was a simple messaging protocol that was never properly extended. Instead, XEPs are a thing. It's the same hell as ActivityPub. Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this. -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 00:47:25 JST
Fish of Rage
@3 @glitter @tk @feld @dushman would be nice for feld to chime in here, I know he has used Caddy professionally. -
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trinity (3@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 00:47:28 JST 
trinity
@dushman @tk @sun @feld @glitter Could you elaborate? At what does it suck? -
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Dushman (dushman@hollow.raccoon.quest)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 00:47:30 JST
Dushman
@3@social.xenofem.me @feld@bikeshed.party @glitter@bbs.kawa-kun.com @tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com @sun@shitposter.world
Also Caddy sucks as soon as you have to do something more advanced. I'd recommend Nginx but if it's just for an xmpp server Caddy should be fine. -
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trinity (3@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 00:47:31 JST
trinity
@feld @glitter @tk @dushman @sun It's not iOS so perhaps this is irrelevant but Monocles Chat on Android has given life to our (murderu.us; I am a shill) XMPP MUCs. It's snappy, easy, and just delightful to use. My opinion on the admin side is prosody + caddy for proxying is good, but we use pretty sparse configs, no image hosting, and no signups (byoa), so we haven't yet had to suffer. -
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 01:20:45 JST
Fish of Rage
@feld @glitter @tk @dushman @3 > Caddy doesn't serve an error, it serves a blank page with a 200.
wat lol that is professional malpractice -
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feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 01:20:46 JST
feld
@sun @glitter @tk @dushman @3 If you want to do simple things Caddy is great. If you want to do complicated things you're going to be annoyed that the docs suck and nobody has an example of what you're trying to accomplish even though it's probably possible.
It's also plagued by bad defaults. Oh, you want to reverse proxy? What happens when the backend is down? Caddy doesn't serve an error, it serves a blank page with a 200. You literally have to modify every vhost you configure to have a custom handle_errors statement:
handle_errors { respond "{err.status_code} {err.status_text}" }THIS IS INSANE
Otherwise Caddy is pretty alright. Just don't enable Prometheus Metrics because it causes serious performance issues! (bug #4644 open 2+ years now with no progress)
If you want to do something complicated, just use Nginx. And C is faster than Go anyway.
If you want to do something simple, use Caddy.
If you want to just add TLS and reverse proxy an app, why are you using a whole webserver when you can just use a TLS proxy like Haproxy, Stunnel, Pound, etc?
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Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 01:23:09 JST
Fish of Rage
@feld @glitter @tk @dushman @3 do people use Hitch anymore
the only reason I wasn't using a simple tool like Hitch was it couldn't handle SNI -
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feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jul-2024 01:35:59 JST
feld
@sun @3 @dushman @glitter @tk Caddy has one redeeming feature: the ability to write custom plugins in Go makes extending it very easy.
I have a module at work that stores all the TLS certificates in an S3 bucket. Any server in the "cluster" will have access to every certificate for every site being served. This is super useful when you can't rely on wildcards. Plus with the way I have it configured any server can initiate a certificate renewal/issuance and any other server can respond. It's magic (by using a dirty hack to forge HTTP-01 ACME responses)Fish of Rage likes this.
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