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1. Embed this notice
   nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:40 JST nekobit
   I hate Lisp so fucking flipping much Its actually INFURIATING to read and write. Fuck this garbage. Anyone who says clisp is good is DELUSIONAL.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:19 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @neko @iska @phnt fork v8 to make it a lisp interpreter
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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:20 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @iska @phnt There are TONS of languages that are literally faster than Lisp. Lua is miles ahead of many languages with JIT support and even just interpreted is faster, while most Lisp implementations might have a generic Bytecode VM at best. Hell, even modern JavaScript has gotten to a good stage with one of the fastest implementations of an dynamic language we have, v8.
     
     Theres no point in caring about age old languages unless you don't have a choice. The work is done. Better derivatives have been made by language designers, and Scheme/Common Lisp has tons of those at your disposal with everything we've learned about language design. There is hardly anything special about Lisp that other languages can't do nowadays, with more clear syntax and better implementations and communities.
     
     The only thing keeping people attached to common lisp is Richard Stallman (who eats shit from a foot and has cancer) who coincidentally cares more about his politics than good code.
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     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:23 JST Iska

     in reply to

     • Phantasm

     @neko@clubcyberia.co @phnt@fluffytail.org when you use lisp for a while you care less about the syntax and more how it's the only dynamic language that people cared to make decent and fast.
     
     There's also smalltalk only 2 people actually use it

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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:24 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @iska @phnt I have tried so hard to get used to lisp and like it. Its impossible.
     
     Here's a good rule of thumb, if your language needs syntax highlighting and any sort of fancy editor functionality to make it functional and readable, its not a good language. Trust me, I know you cant close parentheses in your head.
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     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:25 JST Iska

     in reply to

     • Phantasm

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @neko@clubcyberia.co you just need to get used to it :marseyshrug:

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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:27 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Iska
     @iska @neko
     >actually delivered
     A rare occasion.
     
     Still hurts my brain compared to the easy syntax of C or even C++.
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     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:29 JST Iska

     in reply to

     @neko@clubcyberia.co my last notable pieces of code are the brainfuck->lisp compiler (that can also compile to C), mezzano compiler optimizations that made graphics 2 times faster, and some porting for random libraries and cave story (that one's a WIP but getting it to even load was a massive win that took a while)

   • Embed this notice
     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:30 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     @iska show me a working program you've written
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     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:31 JST Iska

     in reply to

     @neko@clubcyberia.co my honest reaction:

     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:36 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     @iska You are lying through your damn teeth. i literally have to think for like 5 minutes on how to reorganize code here, all while assuming my parenthesis' are balanced
     
     There is absolutely NO way people write this and are efficient with it. Pick up a new language. Anything, please. Quit writing this shitty old language.
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     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:38 JST Iska

     in reply to

     @neko@clubcyberia.co still better than 🦀

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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 23:56:39 JST nekobit

     in reply to
     wow durrrr this looks so GOOD hurr durr bunnndurr hunga durrrrrr
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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:03:01 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @iska @phnt Seriously though, I never understand Javascript hate. For one, its inspired by Lisp and is more object oriented than C++ and Java ever will be.
     
     Most of its design flaws, like var and all that have pretty much gone away or been improved. Only issue isnt a language issue, but just npm culture and all that.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:03:01 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @neko @iska @phnt modern JS is great except the typing system is awful
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:05:54 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @neko @iska @phnt also typescript is an improvement in every way but still stuck with how it handles numbers and conversion between types
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:07:38 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @iska @neko it works fine for many server applications, I have written substantial server software in it.
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:07:40 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Sick Sun
     @neko @iska @sun Because it's used for everything. Even for things it wasn't designed for (desktop apps, server applications). The syntax is meh. To many ways to shoot yourself. npm and alike (even for different languages) are a nightmare that should have never existed.
     
     And a bonus: "Compiling" an interpreted language hurts a little every time I do it.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:09:51 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @iska @neko @phnt I want typescript but with good type primitives, remove implicit conversion, and good concurrency
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     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:11:45 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @neko @iska @phnt @sun js was always ok if you just used the functional part, but the browser environment is / was pretty bad. But things have become a lot better on both ends.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:12:05 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @lain @iska @neko @phnt I like the way it does classes in modern js, the old way sucked ass
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:13:37 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @iska @neko I have switched completely to Elixir from JS/TS so I agree. I just didn't have too many problems using JS on the backend other than concurrency limitations
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:13:38 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @iska @neko It's doable if you really know what you are doing and are very conscious about memory and GC (most aren't). Personally I would prefer something Golang for server applications, or even Erlang/Elixir. I'm purposefully omitting languages like C, because they still fall under the "know what you are doing" category for stability and memory bugs reasons.
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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:14:27 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @lain @iska @phnt @sun Ok but you can access and program MIDI from your banks website which is the future of the web
     on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:15:04 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @neko @iska @phnt I am doing high performance stuff and need it now.
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     nekobit (neko@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:15:05 JST nekobit

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @iska @phnt I dont find Elixir any more readable either tbh, but its certainly better and more readable than Lisp
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:19:27 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @iska @neko yeah npm et al are garbage
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Jun-2024 00:19:28 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Iska
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @iska @neko My main problems with JS is what I said (memory usage) and other more cultural things like deployment. Almost every JS server app I wanted to deploy was painfully hard to deploy without using Docker. Something I use only when I'm desperate, because I end up arguing with it for hours when troubleshooting something. One such example would be Wildduck (email), which refuses to work with podman-compose.