Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 12:42:37 JST Evan Prodromou

   Interesting results. I'm totally revolutionary. The point of the fediverse is to change the world.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 12:44:01 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     The point of a counterculture is to be outside society. The point of a revolution is to take over society.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 12:44:52 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     The fediverse has to have features that let subcultures and counterculture thrive.

   • Embed this notice
     Bruce Elrick (virtuous_sloth@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 13:14:03 JST Bruce Elrick

     in reply to

     @evan Think about Cory Doctorow's Walkaway, whose titular adherents are decidedly counterculture by your definition. Nevertheless in the story their walking away necessarily becomes revolutionary when it threatens the status quo through winning the hearts and minds of the public, a public that increasingly has nothing left to lose.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 13:29:28 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Bruce Elrick

     @virtuous_sloth I think a counterculture can have revolutionary effects, if it tries.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 22:23:04 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Chris Jolly Holcomb

     @ReverendMoose "counter to those of established society" implies it's not the established society.

     It's a metaphor, after all. Society is not a physical thing or place you can be inside or outside of.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Jolly Holcomb (reverendmoose@mas.to)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 22:23:05 JST Chris Jolly Holcomb

     in reply to

     @evan this definition from Meriam Webster is what I was thinking of for counterculture:
     "a culture with values and mores that run counter to those of established society"

     It doesn't say anything about being outside of society, and I've never thought of it that way. I've always thought of it as a counter example which is still inside society and shows a viable alternative. It's this definition and framing I had in mind.

     For reference I went with somewhat counterculture.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Jolly Holcomb (reverendmoose@mas.to)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 22:36:53 JST Chris Jolly Holcomb

     in reply to

     @evan I can definitely see this point, but it was not the way I was thinking about it when I voted, in any case it's something to consider.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jun-2024 22:36:53 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Chris Jolly Holcomb

     @ReverendMoose understood!

     The topic came up during our #SummerOfProtocols call last week. We were talking about the concept of "punk" and whether the Fediverse is punk.

     It reminded me that punk is explicitly countercultural, and that for me the Fediverse is more about making a big change.