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   Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:10:35 JST Abolisyonista

   I am a degrowther, but people keep telling me it's hard to create media communications campaigns for degrowth and that advocating for it is "political suicide." As if endless cancerous growth isn't political suicide already. I'm told people want growth and we should use a different name for degrowth and that we should make it palatable to the public. But degrowth is quite literally a critique of growth. Without this critique, it's just liberal wishywashing for a better future. So I'm at an impasse here. How do we talk about meaningfully talk about degrowth without watering down the message?

   #Degrowth

   • Embed this notice
     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:26:43 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n :she_her::neocat_floof_cute:

     @ch0ccyra1n Agree, but not everyone thinks this.

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     ch0ccyra1n :she_her::neocat_floof_cute: (ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:26:44 JST ch0ccyra1n :she_her::neocat_floof_cute:

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista I think the very premise that we need "the numbers" is absurd

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:45:38 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • Mark Burton

     @markhburton alternatives are great, but without the critique of growth, degrowth is just social democracy. We need to retain the critique of growth while pushing for the fullest positive program.

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     Mark Burton (markhburton@mstdn.social)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:45:39 JST Mark Burton

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista
     Stress the positive aspects of the alternative but also keep on using #degrowth where the message will be heard.

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     Scott Matter (scottmatter@aus.social)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:46:48 JST Scott Matter

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista

     I think of it as much more than a political position.

     Degrowth is about decolonizing our cultures and value-systems.

     Maybe concepts like “well-being” and “sufficiency” frame it more positively, but they’re also easy to co-opt without the explicit anti-growth framing, as has happened with sustainability

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:46:48 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • Scott Matter

     @scottmatter yeah we need the critique of growth to tie it all together

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:48:11 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫

     @inquiline yeah though I articulate it more as the end of growth is inevitable, so our choices are degrowth or collapse.

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     Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫 (inquiline@union.place)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:48:12 JST Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista I'm not sure I'm proud of this decision but I called it "controlled economic rebalancing" in my recent book. I believe wholeheartedly in degrowth but I guess I became half-convinced of its shibbolethic power to make people roll their eyes and dismiss what I was saying. What I was going for was something that sounded almost technocratic but really means reining the Global North in, hard

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     Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫 (inquiline@union.place)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 16:48:12 JST Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista Anyway I think there's value in choosing a not-already-fully-pigeonholed term, but I also think being too defensive about what you're articulating is bad, because most things will get diluted and coopted anyway, might as well say what you mean. If that is helpful!

     ps. I also often say to people in the GN that the options are controlled degrowth or uncontrolled, not whether it happens.

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 17:15:25 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • JindrⒶ, the critically pointed

     @jindra this helps, I think!

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     JindrⒶ, the critically pointed (jindra@todon.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 17:15:28 JST JindrⒶ, the critically pointed

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista

     It's better to listen to people anyway, than to talk to them.

     Better, as in more pragmatic, it has a better effect.

     But it also makes sense. Because when talking to people about degrowth (or related issues), I'm not trying to push my exact worldview. I am trying to understand what the other person feels and strengthen my connection with them.

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     JindrⒶ, the critically pointed (jindra@todon.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 17:15:32 JST JindrⒶ, the critically pointed

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista
     Well, imo it's probably wrong if your goal is to convince people. I think the goal should be to teach people. But not in the "I am the teacher who knows everything and you just absorb my knowledge" way. But in a more collaborative way, where you just show people an analytical tool to look at the world with. And it's up to them what they do with it. Plus you're open to criticism and are willing to learn too.

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     JindrⒶ, the critically pointed (jindra@todon.nl)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 17:15:36 JST JindrⒶ, the critically pointed

     in reply to

     @abolisyonista I think you just have to choose who you talk to.

     For example, there is an advocacy group in Czechia https://nerust.cz/, who write this:
     >Non-growth is a vision of a society in which the basic organizing principle will not be profit and growth, but the satisfaction of human needs within planetary limits, care and sufficiency.

     I think this is quite uncontroversial and it makes sense. Yet, some people will (and have) attack it, because they claim it's "communism". You will never convince such people - probably because they themselves benefit from the current economy.

     But there are people who you might convince. And imo it's not worth to change your message to try to appeal to people who are not on your side anyway.

   • Embed this notice
     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 19:54:29 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     • Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫
     • "You do you" is Eu-gen-ics.

     @beadsland @inquiline the people saying these are working class people and activists. The woman who scoffed at my comment on degrowth is an elder in the movement and a rural activist, a peasant so to speak.

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     "You do you" is Eu-gen-ics. (beadsland@disabled.social)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Jun-2024 19:54:30 JST "You do you" is Eu-gen-ics.

     in reply to

     • Can-crisociality 🦀〰️🥫

     @inquiline @abolisyonista

     As with "defund" (weak-sauce!), we must perhaps liberate the prefix. "Do the de-!"

     Seriously, though, complaint against the term degrowth is one's foot in the door.

     "People want growth and we should..." Okay, stop, before that other bit, tell me more about that first bit. Why do people want growth?

     Who are these "people", exactly? No, let's get specific. Let's talk lives, not abstractions.

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     Abolisyonista (abolisyonista@ni.hil.ist)'s status on Thursday, 06-Jun-2024 17:10:27 JST Abolisyonista

     in reply to

     Thanks everyone for all your comments. I don't think I can reply to everyone, but I did read what everyone had to say. Thank you.