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   Jeff Fortin T. (nekohayo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:35 JST Jeff Fortin T.

   • Team KeePassXC

   The attitude shown by the #Debian packager who insists on going against the will of @keepassxc devs, in this comment: https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues/10725#issuecomment-2104401817 is… wow 🤦

   This "packagers thinking they know better than the developers, and unilaterally patching things" mentality, along with distros often shipping outdated versions, is why many upstream software developers dislike dealing with Debian (& any LTS distro), and now ask users to test/run #Flatpak versions of their applications first and foremost.

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:30 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕
     • Andrej Shadura

     @SrEstegosaurio @andrew_shadura

     > More projects should keep their trademarks to avoid situations like this one but alas.

     Or just put it under a non-free license? That will prevent Debian from packaging it. At least for "main" and "contrib".

     Or accept, that a free license allows others to change software…

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Andrej Shadura (andrew_shadura@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:31 JST Andrej Shadura

     in reply to

     • Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕

     @SrEstegosaurio, which is how exactly useful to someone running a stable release from a couple of years ago?
     (Oh, and the warning never targeted Debian users alone.)

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕 (srestegosaurio@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:31 JST Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕

     in reply to

     • Andrej Shadura

     @andrew_shadura If I recall correctly it was put in place to warn users doing software archeology about old versions and also avoid bug reports.

     In this cases I think it comes down to legality Vs not being a dick. If upstream explicitly tells you to stop under reasonable circumstances then just fork it and change the name.

     More projects should keep their trademarks to avoid situations like this one but alas.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Andrej Shadura (andrew_shadura@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:32 JST Andrej Shadura

     in reply to

     @nekohayo, xscreensaver is not being mispackaged.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕 (srestegosaurio@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:32 JST Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕

     in reply to

     • Andrej Shadura

     @andrew_shadura @nekohayo Wasn't it patched to remove a warning placed explicitly for Debian users?

   • Embed this notice
     Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈 (juliank@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:33 JST Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Team KeePassXC

     @nekohayo The whole "unilaterally" thing strikes me as an odd description. Which and how software is shipped is the decision of the distribution and its developers, and while they can seek input from upstream ultimately upstreams wishes are secondary. The packager needs to maintain the values of the distro, and is held to it by the other developers if necessary by ways enshrined in the constitution.

     In this case communication with upstream broke down years ago anyway

     @debacle @keepassxc

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Fortin T. (nekohayo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:33 JST Jeff Fortin T.

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈
     • Team KeePassXC

     @juliank @debacle @keepassxc
     It took me years to understand why Christian Hergert talked about "the right to request your app not to be packaged"… but after seeing xscreensaver being mispackaged against the dev's wish, multimedia apps getting butchered (missing codecs, etc.), WINE apps (such as Bottles) getting butchered, one of my own Python apps getting one of its dependencies swapped out for a friggin' Java library, I get it.

     If you go against upstream's design, fork-rename the app.

   • Embed this notice
     Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈 (juliank@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:34 JST Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Team KeePassXC

     @debacle @nekohayo @keepassxc People are free to run upstream provided packages whether it be flatpak, snaps, or appimages to get the upstream experience.

     It's not the Debian maintainer's job to implement the wishes of the upstream authors but to ensure that the software as delivered by Debian is not in conflict with Debian's values.

     This includes patching out online functionality, dangerous IPC, pregenerated code, even the JavaScript shipped or referenced from external servers in html pages.

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:24:35 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • Julian Andres Klode 🏳️‍🌈
     • Team KeePassXC

     @nekohayo @keepassxc

     As a #pass user, I don't know much about #KeePassXC, but from reading all the comments, I see some people in favour of @julianks decision, including a former upstream developer. It makes some sense to reduce the attack surface of a #passwordManager. IMHO etc.

     #Debian

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Fortin T. (nekohayo@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:36:27 JST Jeff Fortin T.

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕
     • Andrej Shadura

     @debacle @SrEstegosaurio @andrew_shadura
     That it is "legal" does not make it the morally "right" thing to do, when you are not forking/renaming to a different app name to avoid tarnishing the upstream project's UX and brand.

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 11-May-2024 08:36:27 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Sr. Estegosaurio 🦕
     • Andrej Shadura
     @nekohayo @debacle @SrEstegosaurio @andrew_shadura Trademark was literally made for worries around branding.
     Distros will modify your software, if you want some kind of control over that, trademark is the tool (or a more restrictive license), otherwise you're sending mixed signals when using libre licenses which explicitly grants modifications rights, specially with the typical ones putting no limitations whatsoever (one which notably does being the Artistic License).
     
     Meanwhile arguing about morals is a complete disaster when there's different stakes and values at play, because in the end it will depend on each upstream, and there's tens of thousands of those for your average distro (with average packager maintaining more packages than dunbar number btw).