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   Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 22:21:15 JST Drew DeVault

   "Copyleft is less free than permissive licenses because permissive licenses allow you to make proprietary forks of free software" is a worldview that just straight-up makes no sense at all

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 22:21:14 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @drewdevault@fosstodon.org People who say this have no concept of the "Harm Principle".

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     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 04-Apr-2024 13:26:21 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Andy

     @andyb nothing prevents you from using it at work, that's just a choice your employer makes. Copyleft does not prevent commercial use

     翠星石 likes this.
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     Andy (andyb@techhub.social)'s status on Thursday, 04-Apr-2024 13:26:22 JST Andy

     in reply to

     @drewdevault It’s complicated.

     If something is copyleft, it means that I can’t use it at work. Which is totally fair if the creator wants it that way, but it does mean the use is more restricted.

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     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 06-Apr-2024 16:34:22 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     This is why this doesn't make sense: permissive licenses offer freedom from obligations, and copyleft offers guarantees of rights. Only the latter actually describes freedom as it appears in practice.

     Introduce freedom from obligations in a context where power differentials exist and it becomes a form of tyranny. Freedom exists only through the obligation to respect the rights of others. Freedom of speech is guaranteed by limiting the government's right to interfere in it, for example.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
     Børge repeated this.
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     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 06-Apr-2024 16:34:22 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     Freedom from obligations when one party holds more power than another just means that the former exploits the latter. Businesses exploit the community, in the case of permissive licenses. Copyleft levels the playing field and guarantees the same rights to *everyone*, which is what freedom actually is.

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     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:03 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     @drewdevault

     Thanks for the link!

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     lj·rk (ljrk@todon.eu)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:03 JST lj·rk

     in reply to

     • R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     @RL_Dane @drewdevault Maybe one very recent example of relevance: systemd added now example code how to use systemd notify w/o using sd_notify by including example code as MIT-0 in the docs.

     They discouraged linking to libsystemd for things like sd_notify before, too, but that way they want to actively encourage everyone to simply use UNIX sockets directly.

     This is, to me, a great example of using a very permissive license.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:04 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     @drewdevault

     Ah, I see.

     Just curious why you use permissive licenses, then? I mean, I use MIT, but I'm just spitting out ~100 line shell scripts here and there, puttering around and having fun. If I invested months in a project, I'd probably want it to be strongly copylefted.

   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:04 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     @RL_Dane it depends on the project and my goals. Licenses are a tool, and different tools are suited to different purposes.

     https://discourse.writefreesoftware.org/t/what-is-your-current-go-to-license/60/6?u=ddevault

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     R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd: (rl_dane@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:05 JST R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     in reply to

     @drewdevault

     The only BSD license apologia that made sense to me was #OpenBSD's attitude of, "We'd rather the corporations use our good code and not give back than come up with their own crappy solutions."

     In that view, its a service to the community at large to help the security of commercial software.

     Not saying I agree, really, but it has *some* logic, rather than complaining that the GPL is a one-way street (and somehow commercialism isn't).

   • Embed this notice
     Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 07-Apr-2024 21:12:05 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

     @RL_Dane indeed. I don't think that copyleft is the only answer; I see room for permissive licenses and I use them myself for many of my projects. I'm simply refuting the common bad analysis of the "freedom" associated with each.

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     marcc.rooted (marcc@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 08-Apr-2024 00:57:43 JST marcc.rooted

     in reply to

     • Matthew Fennell

     @matthew hey! It was the philosophers zone, https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/freedom-or-liberty-/103544990

     Highly recommend it 😄

   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Fennell (matthew@social.fennell.dev)'s status on Monday, 08-Apr-2024 00:57:44 JST Matthew Fennell

     in reply to

     • marcc.rooted

     @marcc out of interest, what was the name of the podcast? It sounds interesting 🙂

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     marcc.rooted (marcc@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 08-Apr-2024 00:57:45 JST marcc.rooted

     in reply to

     @drewdevault I listened to a podcast the other day that talked about the distinction between liberty and freedom, and that we should be using the word liberty. Freedom means freedom from encumbrances. Liberty carries a notion of freedom and responsibility, where you limit freedom to the extent that it allows freedom for all.

     We should strive for liberty.

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     Martin Owens :inkscape: (doctormo@floss.social)'s status on Monday, 08-Apr-2024 00:57:54 JST Martin Owens :inkscape:

     in reply to

     @drewdevault

     Regulation is not restriction, it is codification of expectation and standardisation by excluding abusive behaviors.