Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Mar-2024 01:58:40 JST Cat Hicks

   I would never, ever, ever bother to try to get into contributing on this stuff in the topics of my expertise. So maybe look inward guys.

   https://wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation/112122065590727479

   • Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Mar-2024 01:58:40 JST Cat Hicks

     in reply to

     This has just been a real Week About Gender for me and I am TIRED of places being such goddamn cowards about how to fix it. If you think gender shouldn't be a unique predictor and barrier to entry then DO A PROJECT ON WHY IT IS instead of constantly whapping us in the face with ish like this as if WE all, who have to constantly negotiate with YOUR perceptions of it, are the ones who aren't aware of gender my god

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 28-Mar-2024 01:58:51 JST Cat Hicks

     in reply to

     I don't see a single thing in this piece about "teaching women how to become editors" about teaching your existing editors to stop being asshats to women and moderating awful experiences in gender-adjacent topics. Let's get out of kindergarten if you want to act like an authority on it.

   • Embed this notice
     Sumana Harihareswara (brainwane@social.coop)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:33 JST Sumana Harihareswara

     in reply to

     @grimalkina I'm reflecting on your criticism that the "we'd like women to edit more" messaging did not directly include information about work that the Foundation and movement are doing to make the environment less unwelcoming.

     I know that work is happening (such as the Universal Code of Conduct which I helped work towards https://www.harihareswara.net/posts/2021/new-wikimedia-code-of-conduct/ ), and I agree that the Foundation could do better to frontload information about that work because of the concerns you mention.

   • Embed this notice
     Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:35 JST Cat Hicks

     in reply to

     • Sumana Harihareswara

     @brainwane I'm happy to hear about and amplify good work and good projects and support individuals. It's also unlikely to change my overall view of messaging strategies from orgs like this given the outcomes the female scientists in my life have directly experienced because of this project.

   • Embed this notice
     Sumana Harihareswara (brainwane@social.coop)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:35 JST Sumana Harihareswara

     in reply to

     @grimalkina OK, thanks for your context!

     I worked at Wikimedia Foundation 2011-2014. During that time, I know we pursued a multipronged approach on the gender gap, including work towards improving the on-site environment for women, and studying the reasons why, as you put it, gender is a unique predictor and barrier to entry.

   • Embed this notice
     Sumana Harihareswara (brainwane@social.coop)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:37 JST Sumana Harihareswara

     in reply to

     @grimalkina Hi. I used to work for the Wikimedia Foundation, sometimes on gender diversity-related work. May I share some context about that work with you?

   • Embed this notice
     Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:56 JST Cat Hicks

     in reply to

     • Sumana Harihareswara

     @brainwane Thanks for sharing! And thank you for this work.

     You've shared work from over a decade ago. Did any resulting policy changes at the org result in a directly measured improvement to any of these statistics?

   • Embed this notice
     J Miller (jmmaok@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:56 JST J Miller

     in reply to

     • Sumana Harihareswara

     @grimalkina @brainwane

     Something I’d be particularly interested to learn is to what extent there has been systematic review of biographies of women removed on notability grounds. Which if any Wikipedias have done that? (I mean operational/ administrative review more than research.)

     At a minimum, it seems likely that some of those people will clearly meet the criteria after a few years.

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Cat Hicks (grimalkina@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:56 JST Cat Hicks

     in reply to

     • Sumana Harihareswara
     • J Miller

     @JMMaok @brainwane my wife is quite erroneously listed in a famous man's wikipedia entry (aka giving him credit for her work and career which he had nothing to do with), & ofc she isn't to the level of being granted one herself. I can tell you offhand every female scientist in my family and friend groups is like, it's not remotely worth the effort trying to correct the records on women in science on wikipedia. In 2024, why is this org that still has these EGREGIOUS stats telling US anything.

   • Embed this notice
     Sumana Harihareswara (brainwane@social.coop)'s status on Friday, 29-Mar-2024 00:47:58 JST Sumana Harihareswara

     in reply to

     @grimalkina Thanks again.