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  1. Embed this notice
    Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:32:39 JST Paul Cantrell Paul Cantrell
    • Rob Napier

    The experience @cocoaphony describes here: https://mastodon.social/@cocoaphony/112084068085219012

    …sounds like where I expect LLM usage in real-world software development to actually land:

    - Augmenting humans, not replacing

    - Doesn’t •do• thinking; •prompts• thinking

    - Plays to LLM strength: discovering and repeating patterns

    - Useful with an unfamiliar tool / context

    - Supplements experimentation, docs, and community

    1/2

    In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:32:39 JST from hachyderm.io permalink

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    1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
      Rob Napier (@cocoaphony@mastodon.social)
      from Rob Napier
      SwiftSyntax is possibly the most powerful tool we have that you're avoiding because the learning curve is a vertical wall. I will now tell you a horrible secret. ChatGPT is stupid about how SwiftSyntax currently works (because its training data cuts off before there were a lot of changes). But, if you're a senior developer, who can work around that… I shudder to say it… Yes, ChatGPT is very useful for getting a handle on SwiftSyntax. Also, post to the forums. Danny Mösch is incredible.
    • Embed this notice
      Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:35:36 JST Paul Cantrell Paul Cantrell
      in reply to

      - Usage pattern is “Give me some BS that would be typical in this context,” not “Magically write my code for me”

      - LLM output needs extensive revision

      - This revision become a learning tool, is useful because Rob treats it as a device for personal experimentation

      - Thus using the LLM well learns hard on experience, senior dev skills

      → Making good use of LLM requires critical examination & close reading of code; •those• are skills for beginners + us educators to redouble our focus on now

      2/2

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:35:36 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:44:13 JST Paul Cantrell Paul Cantrell
      in reply to

      Repeating and expanding that last bit for emphasis:

      Making good use of LLM / AI tools, and also surviving alongside / in spite of them (in code and elsewhere), requires critical examination and close reading.

      •Those• skills — critical examination and close reading — are something we should redouble our focus on now, “we” being both beginners in new fields and educators like me.

      3/2

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:44:13 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:51:28 JST Paul Cantrell Paul Cantrell
      in reply to
      • ShadSterling

      @ShadSterling
      Indeed. If there’s any utility to LLMs over other forms of discovery for sample code suitable for experimentation, it’s their ability to discover and parrot relevant patterns. That is, I think, genuinely interesting and different from existing tools. If AI work were focused on that instead of the preposterous hype that’s driving it, I suspect it could do better on many fronts — yes, including energy efficiency!

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:51:28 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      ShadSterling (shadsterling@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:51:29 JST ShadSterling ShadSterling
      in reply to

      @inthehands sounds a little like transcribing some code from the back of a book and then making changes to it until it does what I want, which is how I originally learned to code. I don’t doubt LLMs can be useful that way, but a good code search engine would be better and use far less energy

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:51:29 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:13:48 JST Paul Cantrell Paul Cantrell
      in reply to
      • Robb B. 🇺🇸

      @stl8k I had not! Surprisingly nuanced and ambivalent results coming from Google Research, where there is incentive to cheerlead.

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:13:48 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Robb B. 🇺🇸 (stl8k@hci.social)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:13:49 JST Robb B. 🇺🇸 Robb B. 🇺🇸
      in reply to

      @inthehands Have you seen this research from Google?https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.18498v1.pdf

      In conversation Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:13:49 JST permalink

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