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1. Embed this notice
   feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:17:36 JST feld
   Just so we're all on the same page:
   
   Israel has a right to defend itself from threats both foreign and domestic
   
   It is not a genocide for Israel to eliminate
   HAMAS members
   
   It is probably a genocide to completely demolish all of Palestine and indiscriminately kill as many civilians as possible in the process of rooting out HAMAS militant targets
   • Embed this notice
     Jonah Aragon (jonah@mastodon.neat.computer)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:28:45 JST Jonah Aragon

     in reply to

     @feld only probably?

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:28:45 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Jonah Aragon
     @jonah it's a numbers game at this point and if you keep the kill count low enough it only counts as a "tragedy" :sigh:
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:33:50 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
     @adiz > Israel is a hostile, colonialist pathogen in the region
     
     Unless you're an indigenous person living still on indigenous lands you're basically a "colonialist pathogen" if you want to view the world through that narrow lens
   • Embed this notice
     :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:33:51 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     in reply to

     @feld@bikeshed.party Just so we're all on the same page:
     
     Israel is a hostile, colonialist pathogen in the region, and those under its occupation and its surrounding neighbors have a right to eliminate the blight.
     
     It is not genocide for Israel to eliminate members of resistance groups to it.
     
     It is genocide for Israel to completely demolish all of the occupied peoples and towns, indiscriminately killing as many civilians as possible in the process of rooting out occupied resistance.
     
     :israel_burn:

   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:34:14 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • :vepi: tropical edition
     Fair point.
     
     I think I took Feld mainly as saying it's okay to kill politicians (and military) but not civilians.
     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     :vepi: tropical edition (goo@dobbs.town)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:34:15 JST :vepi: tropical edition

     in reply to

     @feld why does Israel have that right? Does Palestine not have the right to defend itself from threats, foreign and domestic?

     You could argue that Russia-Ukraine business is about "defense" - for both sides - when we're talking about ethical issues, we need to use stricter language

     Palestinians have been subject to genocide since 1948 with the nakba.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:46:15 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :vepi: tropical edition
     @goo because we live in a world of nation-states and Palestine has never been a formally recognized state.
     
     The history here is quite complicated and some of the blame is cultural as the Palestinian people did not even consider themselves a unified identity until almost halfway through the 20th century, but the seeds of this were planted before WWI when international markets opened to Palestinian farmers. (according to some books I'm reading that's covering the history of the region).
     
     Part of that is due to the West spreading misinformation by not understanding the livelihoods of these people. When Mark Twain and others from the West went through Palestine in the early 1900s their conclusion was mostly that there is all of this beautiful land being occupied by uncivilized stupid people who couldn't maintain their own infrastructure because they saw all of these "abandoned" shacks by the fields down in the valleys. They didn't understand that the farmers only lived down there when they needed to work otherwise they went to higher ground where it was safer from bedouin raiders...
     
     Mistakes were made. A lot of them, actually. And it doesn't help that Israel has never really given these people who live within their borders and should be recognized as citizens their "equal rights" either.
     
     It seems like Israel is not going to stop without massive economic sanctions or violence directed towards them, and there are plenty of reasons why we don't want to do that.
     
     This is another shameful chapter in human history. I'd like innocent civilians to stop being killed, though.
   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Feb-2024 04:47:55 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶

     It is not genocide for Israel to eliminate members of resistance groups to it.

     It is genocide for Israel to completely demolish all of the occupied peoples and towns, indiscriminately killing as many civilians as possible in the process of rooting out occupied resistance.

     I think he agrees.

     It is not a genocide for Israel to eliminate HAMAS members

     It is probably a genocide to completely demolish all of Palestine and indiscriminately kill as many civilians as possible in the process of rooting out HAMAS militant targets

     feld likes this.