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Just saw a thread where people were dying for browsers with shady pasts and I'm here on Vivaldi like, maybe you should go with whatever serves your interests and leave the rest of us alone.
- on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ likes this.
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@thatbrickster And like it doesn't really matters what people use, it's not some fucking elections.
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster Doesn't changes shit.
See vi vs. emacs.
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@lanodan @thatbrickster
>it doesn't really matters what people use
*laughs in gafam*
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster The only thing which should matter is keeping the ability to use a libre software infra, whatever random people use on their *own computer* doesn't matters.
Like using Firedfox isn't going to make some GNU projects stop using GitHub.
And the problem of things like the web always was that W3C and related is awful when it comes to governance, specially because they have *no* principles, and that's not on users, that's on web engine developers and their organisations.
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster Note: governance in english isn't for governments, it's for any administrative body, like «direction» in french.
And market politics doesn't really works like that, if you'd want to have control over it, that would be via actual political organisations like say consumers unions, not brand following and being all about market share (aka revenue from ads/sponsorship and interest from investors).
A corporation never works for people's interest, even one with a non-profit as puppet.
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@lanodan @thatbrickster
>whatever random people use on their *own computer* doesn't matters.
Indeed. But whatever the 5 billions of people have does. Because human decision making is more or less tied to what is the most "successful" and success is measured by people by observing what is the most common thing that doesn't harm other people directly.
>Like using Firedfox isn't going to make some GNU projects stop using GitHub.
That would be ridiculous of course.
But it lets say suddenly 90% of the market share went to pseudo OS web browsers like Icecat or Firefox then the web would change radically as suddenly billions of scams apps/website, malware etc... wouldn't work.
The same would happen if uMatrix and shelterJS would also have that market share.
Same goes with OSs if suddenly the market share would sift to any of the FSF approved distribution then the market would shreeeek in agony as the scammers and hoarders would loose/see their profits go elsewhere, even education would be impacted as they'll have to follow their logic of "we're teaching/training depending on what the markets asks".
>And the problem of things like the web always was that W3C and related is awful when it comes to governance,
They aren't a gov, they aren't a corporation who can make rainfall happen either. They don't have a monopoly on violence and sadly can't send death squads to google&co if they are transgressing the web standards.
For example if they had said that webDMR wouldn't have been standardized then all web browsers would have implemented them anyway because of the "market demand" which is coincidentally produced by the same people who also make the current dominant browser.
You can't negotiate with these sociopath sadly, we're almost back to the IE days but with google tbh.
>and that's not on users
It's still a bit on users tho. As all is defined by market according to banks/silicon valley/govs etc...
>that's on web engine developers and their organisations.
That is also correct.
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster Like the true end of DRM isn't going to be there even with >90% of sales being DRM-Free, it's going to be with ruling it out as something like an abusive practice.
It does help making it politically viable but that's far from being the only way.
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster They're not the ones who need to understand it anyway, at least not for the next ~25 years when maybe they'll start holding political power.
And laws like GDPR didn't come from quite similarly helpless senators.
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@lanodan @thatbrickster
> it's going to be with ruling it out as something like an abusive practice.
With the current level of knowledge people have about computing this is going to be hard to explain. Zoomers can't even understand file hierarchy.
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@mangeurdenuage @thatbrickster Yeah, I'm not saying current consumer unions are working properly, like I'm a member of none currently because none seem to be worth it.
And when it comes to influence… I've never seen that work, you can have absolute thousands of people getting together that it still wouldn't change anything, because they can still be ruled over and over again.
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@lanodan @thatbrickster
>governance in english isn't for governments, it's for any administrative body, like «direction» in french.
I'm aware.
>market politics doesn't really works like that
That's what they tell us tho, in reality they do tf they want as long as they have enough influence.
>like say consumers unions,
I had to deal with these people to help old people who got scammed by ISPs and they don't give a shit if you can't afford the help, they're pretty much controlled opposition from my experience.
>not brand following
Correct but I'm not thinking about brand following. It's most about user influence and having the correct or incorrect message distributed and the corpos/govs know that.
Bricky
Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
mdn
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