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@rher @Griffith @Groomschild @sickburnbro @jeffcliff It's only efficient to treat the plebs well when there is massive opportunity for growth that needs to be exploited as quickly as possible. At a steady state, when growth is over and the acquisitioin of resources has stabilized, things **always** go preferentially to the elites. This is the way it works in every single biological system-- you have your prosperous core that's meant to survive the lean times, and a sacrificial margin who's meant to feed the predators (or to be ready to go into a feeding frenzy to help the species expand its territory if things suddenly improve)
This is part of why europe was able to punch far above its normal biological weight during the industiral revolution-- tons of low-IQ plebs died off during the middle ages and the children of merchants, lacking any other prospects, had to lose thier social status and start working the factories.
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@diurnalfreak666 @rher @Griffith @Groomschild @jeffcliff this has been true in some societies, but certainly not all and if anything the constant seems to be that the more lopsided it is, the more unstable it is.
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@sickburnbro @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff the fighting though is rarely for equailty for everyone (revolutionary rhetoric notwithstanding), it has always been over who gets to be the elite. Even in all the most ideological of revolutions, it was always the early leaders of the revolution and their children who really benefitted.
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@diurnalfreak666 @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff The whole idea of "equality for everyone" is a poisoned post-enlightenment idea to begin with. It was once about rights and duties. What has happened is government has grown in power steadily as the amount of spare human labor has increased as those that wish to do evil care the least about maintaining things
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@diurnalfreak666 @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff our system is not result of business owners bickering, though.
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@sickburnbro @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff you don't have to have evil intentions to end up with an evil system-- the bickering between business owners justifying reducing wages and wagies expecting things like to be able to live in a house like their parents' or for their pay to ultimately reimburse them for their education shows this. They're each arguing for what seems to them, completely rationally, is their right, but your rights are always someone else's responsibility. And people resent having extra responsibilitiy placed on them.
In the end, all you're entitled to for your work is death or the bare minimum to keep working. Everything else is gravy so SAVOR IT. It won't get better as long as you're married to the idea of getting back from society what you're "owed".
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@diurnalfreak666 @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff yes, I'm saying that isn't the mechanism it operates by at all.
People are irrational, so no, it isn't the result of people doing anything rationally. I hope you can look at events in 2024 and understand that this is not the result of a world of rational thinkers.
Humans do like hierarchies, but the twist is that there is substantial variance in preference and necessities in those arrangements by race.
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@sickburnbro @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff Nope. Never said it was, that's just an example of the mechanisms by which it operates.
Do you think the government picking its own winners and losers, or the fact that so much of this is done by ideologues who have their own postmodern justification for everything they want to do changes this? This is a result of people doing what rationally seems "right" to them. It's an evolved system that doesn't rely much on the environmental context.
Humans have an instinct to set up a hierarchal society, the same way a caddisfly larva has an instinct to build a cocoon from pebbles regardless of if they're chert, granite or sandstone, or a rat digs a burrow, regardless of whether it's clay, silt or sand. We are generalists, we adapt the environment to our needs. And our most pressing social need is for hierarchy. It's the operating system that all our other social instincts run on top of.
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@diurnalfreak666 @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff remember, the tower of babel is a important story for a reason. You assume that these are people that uniformly believe in the superiority of their race, but the levelers point to people who will sacrifice everything to destroy race
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@Griffith @rher @Groomschild @sickburnbro @jeffcliff probably less than most people who use the acronym "HBD" think. The center "wants" (in the way genes "want" things) the margin to be similar to them because that's where growth is going to come from if some new source of resources appears for your species to exploit.
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@Griffith @Groomschild @jeffcliff @rher @sickburnbro which is somethign that kind of makes this current society insane-- they're using outsiders to try and destroy the people on the margins who might compete with them. They're so arrogant about their own race's superiority though ,they can't conceive of how those outsiders could ever threaten them. Besides that I dont' know what to make of it.
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@sickburnbro @diurnalfreak666 @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff this is tangential, but to what extent does HBD track with class?
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@3hu @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @sickburnbro @jeffcliff "Winning" isn't all its cracked up to be. You have to give up a lot of leeway you had to act freely in order to dominate others, and you end up invested in their fate. Think of how america imported black slaves and what they've done to this country as a result.
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@diurnalfreak666 @3hu @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @jeffcliff winning is as cracked up as you want it to be. Cruel masters lose no sleep.
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@diurnalfreak666 @Griffith @rher @Groomschild @sickburnbro @jeffcliff or you can take back what you think you're entitled to
history and responsibilities are written by the winners
Zambia
Bread up, Bro
Griffith
senn
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