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   Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 19:42:32 JST Dushman

   Looks like Austrian economics didn't work out for them so well
   
   RE: https://cdrom.tokyo/objects/a6e78f57-5814-4750-ac31-2022777dccf0

   • Embed this notice
     Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 19:42:31 JST Dushman

     in reply to

     • Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:

     cc @mer@cdrom.tokyo

     Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash: likes this.
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     Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash: (mer@cdrom.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 22:18:57 JST Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:

     in reply to

     • 🌲-alist
     @threalist @dushman
     Evererything is a standard exchange of good/services, weallth is only moved::
     1: immorally appropriate a public good (extract natural ressources for profit, from mining to spring water)
     2: exchange gains for recreative service, doesn't have to be drugs, could be a restaurant or a movie.
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     🌲-alist (threalist@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 22:18:58 JST 🌲-alist

     in reply to

     • Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:
     Austrian economists would tell you wealth is being destroyed in the diagram. It should just be labeled "crime" instead.
     
     Also i'm sure the tangled corrupt mess of industries is convulsing in Argentina in the face of real reforms. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
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     Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash: (mer@cdrom.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 23:07:10 JST Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:

     in reply to

     • 🌲-alist
     @threalist @dushman The manhole cover is a public good, granted by the state.
     In its own frame of reference, it's the transaction of taxes against state investment in infrastructure.
     The wealth is the covered hole hazard and functional sewer system. The manhole itself has no inherent extra value over its material outside of its context. If you have more manhole covers than manholes, the extra manholes are worthless.
     Melting it down is money for the thief, then for the drug dealer, but also money for the scrapper, the ironworks, the miners providing coal to the ironworks.
     Trying to isolate wealth creation or destruction in a model is always a processus of disregarding value exchanges as "not legitimate" like the drug deal, because it's in a black market parallel to the visible economy.
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     🌲-alist (threalist@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 23:07:11 JST 🌲-alist

     in reply to

     • Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:
     > Evererything is a standard exchange of good/services, weallth is only moved
     
     In the example above, a manhole cover had been created talking raw resources and converting it into a manhole cover which has a value (what someone is willing to pay) above the cost of production and cost of resources. This created wealth.
     
     Melting it down reduced it to the resources again and resulted in money for the thief but an overall loss of total wealth. Wealth was destroyed.
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     Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash: (mer@cdrom.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 23:59:29 JST Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:

     in reply to

     • 🌲-alist
     @threalist @dushman do you even believe your own sophism? You went from wealth to economy.
     The value goes out of the country's economy when it enters the black market.
     You get callled out for myopicallly focusing on a partial model and your ressponse is another partial model?
   • Embed this notice
     🌲-alist (threalist@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 25-Jan-2024 23:59:30 JST 🌲-alist

     in reply to

     • Mer's pizza Mer's world :blobcatgooglytrash:
     > The manhole itself has no inherent extra value over its material outside of its context.
     
     Yes.
     
     > Melting it down is money for the thief, then for the drug dealer, but also money for the scrapper, the ironworks, the miners providing coal to the ironworks.
     
     Ok, so let's build a giant manhole cover factory for the purpose of dumping them in town so they can be stolen and melted back down and the cycle can power the economy.