Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 18:56:19 JST lainy
   has star trek gone woke?
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 18:59:56 JST kaia

     in reply to
     @lain it's disgusting how this fake idealistic woke ideology contrasts to how humans really are :angry_cirno:
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:01:27 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia @lain replicators probably help though :neocat_woozy:
     kaia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:03:27 JST kaia

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @lain
     How Replicators Turned Federation Woke
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:13:05 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Hoss Delgado
     @Hoss something to think about
   • Embed this notice
     Hoss Delgado (hoss@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:13:06 JST Hoss Delgado

     in reply to
     I thought what Star Trek was trying to say was "The only thing standing between mankind and post-scarcity society are machines that magically make anything you could ever want for free."
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:25:28 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @kaia it's just unrealistic, normal people working together with russians
     clacke and ロミンちゃん like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:43:10 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @lain
     
     Star Trek always had a socialist future vision but my impression was that it was a liberal-ish everyone-will-get-along-post-scarcity socialism rather than we-killed-all-the-landlords socialism, which is why calling it "woke" didn't feel quite right.
     lainy likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:50:20 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @Moon i think it's hard to categorize star trek in these ways, economy essentially plays no role because there's no real scarcity anymore (that's not really possible but they can pretend it is). But i agree that it's not at all 'woke' in the way it's used now.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:51:33 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @lain yeah I think it's really fun to think about how it all works and also the ways the writers succeeded and failed.
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     sampo (sampo@pleroma.soykaf.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:53:13 JST sampo

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @lain @Moon >tfw you can't categorize a fake thing on the screen as either based or woke
     pulling my car into oncoming traffic rn
     lainy and narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 19:54:08 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @Moon i remember that the writers were asked 'how do the heisenberg compensators work' and they answered 'very well, thanks.'
     Sexy Moon and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     ㅤ (eidolon@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:04:08 JST ㅤ

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @lain @Moon it's like asking how does superman fly, it doesn't matter since the show is kinda the twilight zone in space
     Sexy Moon and lainy like this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:08:44 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
     @roboneko @Moon the whole thing is really unclear throughout every star trek show. at least in roddenberry trek it's generally written as if things are non-scarce enough that everyone in the federation doesn't care about money.
   • Embed this notice
     Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:08:46 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @lain @Moon
     
     > economy essentially plays no role because there's no real scarcity anymore
     
     there are various references to spending credits in addition to things that are clearly businesses. I think it plays almost no role because the writers didn't choose to explore it (for the most part)
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:28:21 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
     • Awoo
     @Awoo @roboneko @Moon DS9 is when they started moving away from roddenberry's original vision. him being dead probably helped.
   • Embed this notice
     Awoo (awoo@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:28:22 JST Awoo

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
     @roboneko
     DS9 touches upon people living in fringe colonies and the hell they go through.
     "Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth-on Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. It's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the demilitarized zone all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints, just people-angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not."
     @lain @Moon
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 20:28:23 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     @lain @Moon yeah but how many "regular" people who aren't living on flagship vessels do we get to see?
     
     it does seem a bit odd tho if I stop and think about it
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 21:12:25 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:

     @roboneko Earth is post-scarcity and post-currency. Starfleet is. A lot of the Federation is, but not all of it. Places outside the Federation generally are not, except e.g. the Borg.

     People on DS9 dealt with money because the station was an interface between the Federation and the rest.

     People on shore leave in TNG received some credits to play with.

     @Moon @lain

     Sexy Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2024 00:41:46 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Matthew Skala
     @mattskala @lain I don't consider woke and progressive to be interchangeable, out of those examples the interracial kiss was the only one that met the criteria, even the nonbinary TNG episode which was astonishingly progressive for the time was presented gently.
   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Skala (mattskala@mstdn.io)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2024 00:41:47 JST Matthew Skala

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon

     @lain @Moon complete with "pronouns," and the only nod to making it science fiction was that they inverted it: she was "she" on a planet where most people were agender and called "one."

     I figure Trek was *always* extremely woke, since decades before woke was a thing.

     Questions about whether it's left or right in the traditional economic sense are an irrelevant distraction because woke is not about economics.

   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Skala (mattskala@mstdn.io)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2024 00:41:48 JST Matthew Skala

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon

     @lain @Moon Star Trek's producers were proud of the fact that they broadcast the first "interracial" (meaning black/white) kiss on network television.

     They did an episode about a planet of black-and-white and white-and-black two-tone people discriminating against each other.

     They had Russian and Japanese characters on the bridge at a time the USA considered those nations to be enemies.
     
     In a later series they had an episode about a character we might now call genderqueer or something, (more)

   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Skala (mattskala@mstdn.io)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2024 00:49:53 JST Matthew Skala

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon

     @Moon @lain Notwithstanding that's it's fashionable to say "woke" has no definition, I think "progressive" is even more meaningless. The constant pattern I see throughout Trek is that Trek is performatively inclusive, in whichever directions were priorities in the USA at the time of broadcast. That seems like what I'd call "woke." And even if you want to distinguish "progressive" as a separate thing from "woke," I think they're much closer to each other than either is to economic right/left.

     lainy likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2024 00:55:06 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Matthew Skala
     @mattskala @lain Even though I don't completely agree with you I think you're more right than I was in my previous statement.
     clacke likes this.