phiofx
For several years it seemed like deficiencies of older ecosystems will usher new takes: #rust fixing #cpp, #kotlin fixing #java, #julia fixing #python, #wasm fixing #javascript etc.
But it no longer feels so. Maybe it was a case of "you have to move fast to fix things" and as incumbents raise their game the window of opportunity closes. The vast investment in established stacks incentivises patching the most egregious weaknesses.
One exception seems #golang, which found a network niche
tamas 🦀
@phiofx I think it’s a matter of perspective and not a once in our life event. You describe the creation of very new technologies (Rust is only 8 years old, wasm 6, kotlin and julia 12). C++ first appeared 39 years ago. As new tech matures there will be new challengers.
phiofx
@tamas oh for sure. its only a gut feeling anyway. but the pattern I sort for see is that 3-4 years ago the newcomers had an easier time because the incumbents were more stagnant. For example the complain that python is not fast enough prompted several iterations and more are coming.
phiofx
@MobileOak but as far as I know kotlin has not made any meaningful dent outside the android domain (the vast corporate space that determines the future of java). So its fate is highly linked to the whims of Google and even they hedge their bets with dart/flutter
MobileOak
@phiofx on Android, Kotlin is the standard now. You can't get a job if you only know Java.
phiofx
@OddDev ha ha, fair enough, but thats as anecdotal as my hunch
I don't mean that none of the new proposals will make it into say "top 5" universal language, its just that there is a pattern that it may take longer (if ever) than what the sentiment was few years ago
In the rust vs cpp space the latter is definitely trying to get its act together, whether people will again build greenfield projects remains to be seen
Kai Klostermann
@phiofx What? Rust is all over the place lol.
phiofx
@danjac yes, the vast prior art of older languages is both a curse and a blessing.
discussing the real advantages of new takes is subtle enough, but weighing these against the benefit of reusing existing know-how for both current and future projects is very tricky. in applied maths this is the problem of subtracting two large numbers (catastrophic cancellation): your result is unstable, very sensitive to assumptions
danjac
@phiofx I think there is also improvements in the original languages. For example Typescript or typed Python.
Rewriting from scratch even in a "better" language is expensive and fraught with problems - you risk reintroducing bugs without perfect understanding not only of the original code, but the original context. But gradual improvement over time is better.
Question is whether new ecosystems are adopted for new projects. Maybe that is more an economics question.
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