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   🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 04:27:30 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   "My freedom doesnt end where your fear begins. Freedom is scary, deal with it." -- John H. Bryan

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     Hexnut (ambihelical@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 05:15:32 JST Hexnut

     in reply to

     @freemo I dunno causing someone intentional fear is not a protected right. There are specific laws against that kind of abuse.

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 05:19:14 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Hexnut

     @ambihelical its a natural right, and it should be.

     Now chasing you to inflict fear on you would be harassment. But that has more to do with being unwanted and chased than the fear. At least as far as I'm concerned.

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     Hexnut (ambihelical@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 05:50:29 JST Hexnut

     in reply to

     @freemo Aren't you violating my natural right to freewill and choice by coercing me to run via the fear of potential violence? This seems analogous to fraud, where the violation of one's rights isn't as obvious and getting e.g. bludgeoned. But it's still a violation.

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     illandan@qoto.org's status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 22:00:47 JST illandan

     in reply to

     @freemo GB Shaw was often quoted as saying "Your freedom ends where my nose begins" -- perhaps he had a really long nose or he could sniff fear. Dunno.

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 22:02:05 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • illandan

     @illandan I think its fair to say that my freedom ends where yours begins... which is to say you have bodily autonomy to walk away when your in fear. :)

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 22:02:57 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Hexnut

     @ambihelical No, your freewill allows you to walk away from things that give you fear, not to control another person so they dont put you in fear.

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 22:12:02 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • illandan

     @illandan Thats not what we are talking about. We are talking about fear, not "real dangder"... separate things. Putting people in real mortal danger is typically illegal (depending on the circumstances).

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     illandan@qoto.org's status on Sunday, 14-Jan-2024 22:12:04 JST illandan

     in reply to

     @freemo Freedom is all about choice, granted. But if by exercising that freedom, you were to put others in real danger (where their fears may be quite justified), you just turn out to be a jerk in using your freedom.

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     Hexnut (ambihelical@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 05:19:51 JST Hexnut

     in reply to

     • illandan

     @freemo @illandan

     Hmm, I WAS talking about danger, specifically the threat of violence. The quote didn't really specify what caused that fear, so I didn't think it was true in this case.

     I agree that some things that might get you scared aren't a reason to restrict someone else's freedom, but there are things that can get you scared that should. So the original quote just isn't true in all cases, It sounds good but it shaves a few too many corners.

     It seems freedom from the threat of violence is included as a natural right (did some research), which makes sense to me. I you saying you don't think that is a natural right?

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     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 15-Jan-2024 23:51:20 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Hexnut
     • illandan

     @ambihelical

     Well the point is the fear itself isnt what you have a right to be able to avoid... there are plenty of indirect things that cause fear you might have a right to not have in your world (in a fair world) but that is not the same as saying you have a right to not be exposed to things that scare you.

     @illandan