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   Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 03:40:07 JST Sexy Moon

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   • Greg
   @ageha @Greg if swartz quietly ran a scraper that scraped content on the public internet, didn't disrupt the service he was scraping from and didn't circumvent attempts to get him to stop then it would be comparable and probably be treated similarly.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 09:06:53 JST Sexy Moon

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     • Greg
     • Jess
     @eletious @Greg @ageha I said I don't support OpenAI and I don't support his prosecution, I said I don't find the situations comparable. Furthermore you're not immune from consequences when you fuck up people's shit trying to get your precious free files.
     
     You're the one sucking capitalism's dick defending copyright to sue OpenAI lol.
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     Jess (eletious@eattherich.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 09:06:55 JST Jess

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     • Greg

     @Moon @Greg @ageha holy shit, you figured it out! if Aaron didn't want to commit suicide, he simply should have found a way to liberate educational materials without inconveniencing anyone! jesus fucking christ.

     i don't know if you know that you're doing this, but you're simultaneously:
     - defending MIT and USGov's decision to arrest and prosecute a young man for stealing educational and scientific materials, and threaten him with decades of jail time and millions of dollars in fines, because the gatekeeping of that information made the college and scientific publishing industry a LOT of money (even though researchers and authors only saw a fraction of that revenue)
     - protecting corporations that are scraping every public Web service for materials copyrighted by (often) individual artists and authors with declared intent to create services that are capable of replacing the people who create art and literature, thereby destroying a revenue stream that keeps thousands of skilled professionals housed, from valid criticism.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 09:07:44 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

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     • Greg
     • Jess
     @Greg @eletious @ageha your argument sucked and you should delete it.
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     Greg (greg@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 09:07:46 JST Greg

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     • Jess

     @eletious @Moon @ageha

     I don't want to re-litigate Aaron's situation with anyone. Can ya'll untag me from any future replies?

     Thanks.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 09:09:47 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

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     • Greg
     • Jess
     @Greg @ageha @eletious Learn how to interpret criticism of an argument without assuming they support the opposite position.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 10:27:58 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Jess
     @eletious It sounds like you're trying to engage me in good faith so I'm dialing back my aggression, but I assure you I am not acting in bad faith. I don't support how he was treated, it was terrible and undeserved and the government's policy of loading you up with tons of excessive charges then offering you a plea bargain is disgusting. The punishment did not fit the crime. I just try to measure why reactions happen the way they do and the manner in which Swartz executed that act is going to get a bigger reaction than a boring copyright infringement case. He made his presence known by interfering with the function of a major university's network. when he was blocked he evaded the block and kept causing the problem. when he couldn't get around their blocks anymore he broke into the library and installed equipment on their network. You can argue that the damage caused by AI shit is bigger but it's also more indirect than literal breaking and entering. again he didn't deserve the treatment he got but what he did was overtly antagonistic and was going to get a response. I am not even sure that the difference in treatment in general is unfair because if you cause an immediate problem to people you are going to get an immediate response as opposed to creating a big problem that only really has legal liability consequence.
     
     > bikeshedding does protect corporations from criticism, even if that's not your intent.
     
     Even though I don't agree with your prior argument I concede this to some extent. although I am totally in favor of making OpenAI pay and I don't care if their business model can't survive if they have to pay. I literally am just peeved at hyperbolic arguments, which I still believe this (and the "fined for music piracy" comparison) are.
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     Jess (eletious@eattherich.club)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 10:27:59 JST Jess

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     @Moon @ageha Deleting my post would be a great idea, and probably better for me in the long run, but unfortunately I understand both that the OP has less to do with the mechanics of crime than it does the impact, and that copyrighting artistic works in the system we currently operate within actually does, to a certain extent, protect individuals who create those works. The system sucks! It's bad! But until we abolish capitalism, artists need some way to prevent giant corporations from eating their lunch. So I have to post something.

     Which sucks, because you're so blatantly engaging in bad faith arguments on the Internet.

     My point there is that Aaron Swartz didn't actually harm anyone. Nobody was displaced from their home because he was downloading "precious free files" - the network just wasn't working as well as it should have been. Professors at MIT didn't have to start posting fundraisers online to pay their rent because some kid wanted information to be free. Research teams weren't joining tent cities because the network slowed down. But those things HAVE happened to artists and authors because of AI tech.

     If all you can say is "A.S. isn't Big Tech!" or "Big Tech didn't kill A.S.!" when people complain that the government bullied someone TO DEATH for copyright infringement, but hasn't done the same to corporations building plagiarism machines, then you're not actually reading the post and thinking about what it means -- you're missing the forest for the trees.

     These situations are absolutely comparable, and doing so highlights the contrast of the "harm done" to "punishment" ratio between individuals and corporations. Distracting from that point by bikeshedding does protect corporations from criticism, even if that's not your intent.