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   Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Monday, 08-Jan-2024 11:24:41 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

   Q: If a literary work is in the #PublicDomain or is licensed under an #Attribution and/or #ShareAlike license (like #CCBy and #CCBySA), is it still #Fanfiction?

   A: No.

   Explanation:

   You see, in the strictest sense, a fanfiction is an unlicensed/unauthorised derivate of a Copyrighted work.

   Since the Public Domain, and the Attribution and ShareAlike licenses (provided you follow the license terms), allow for anyone to create a derivative work, then any and all works based on it are not fan fiction.

   • Embed this notice
     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Monday, 08-Jan-2024 11:25:09 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     Q: But how about continuity? And which one is “canon”?

     A: Whichever the readers want it to be.

     Most readers who are concerned about continuity and canonicity would automatically consider the work of the original author as the “Prime Reality”. Everything else are in “Other Realities”, or a branch of the timeline, or a parallel world.

     The beauty of this is that, for literary works where canonicity and continuity is important, the original author can suddenly declare this work is canon and/or part of the continuity. Those who did not read that, will suddenly start to read that work.

     It creates an ecosystem where authors of a #SharedWorld can help each other.

     In any case, an #author who dedicates their work in the Public Domain; or use an Attribution and/or ShareAlike license, more likely than not already understands how canonicity and continuity plays a role for their own work. These authors would have set their own guidelines already.

     For example. Author A prefers to have complete control over the “Prime Reality”. That works fine. Most readers prefer this, since this what we're used to. At the same time, it doesn't invalidate derivative works; AND the Author A can also reuse derivative works.

     Author B on the other hand declared that there is no “Prime Reality”. It is up to the readers to decide which particular path of the story they prefer. It could be primary author's (Author B), or it could be Author C, Author D, and so on.

     Literally, there is no fan fiction in this setup. What would have been fanfiction are simply different realities (timeline/worlds/paths).

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     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Monday, 08-Jan-2024 14:06:32 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     • trdebunked

     @trdebunked Hmm… is not an “unauthorised biography” a biography of a person without their permission/consent?

     So, if applied in fiction:
     * it is an unauthorised biography of a fictional character without that character's permission.

     * The character itself, and the life events mentioned in that “unauthorised biography” are based on the Copyrighted work, thus making the fictional [unauthorised] biography itself also unauthorised or unlicensed.

     In other words, it still falls as a fanfic. However, if this unauthorised biography of a fictional character was based on a Public Domain, or Attribution ShareAlike, work, then it is no longer a fanfic since PD, BY, BY-SA allows derivative works automatically.

     It just becomes a matter of canonicity and continuity.

     For example, in “Fifty Shades of Gray”, they had to pull down the original fanfic it was based on; changed the characters; and changed other aspects that might be linked to the original source material (and can potentially become an infringement issue).

     So, doing an “unauthorised biography” of a fictional character, since a biography is about a person's life events, then it is unavoidable not to use that character's life events from the source material, which is a copyrighted work. Without a permission/license from the Rightsholder, then it's a fanfic because of its “copyright status”.

     Did I understand what you were getting at?

     ---

     Re: existing of Copyright law. I'm for abolishing it. But since it is there, we have to work with it for now. Hence, the existing of Public Domain, Attribution (By), and ShareAlike (By-SA) for literary works.

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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 08-Jan-2024 14:06:34 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone thats a pointless distinction. it can be "unauthorised" without breaking copyright law. not that i think copyright should apply for more than a few years, or to copies of works that are not being sold commercially. id be perfectly happy if we got rid of it altogether. you really think fanfic would suddenly become impossible if copyright didnt exist?

     for another example of "authorised" that has nothing to do with copyright, consider "authorised biographies". its not just about (c).

   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 08-Jan-2024 14:06:34 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone so a fanfic is an unauthorised biography of fictional characters, and copyright/license status has nothing to do with this.

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     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 03:53:25 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     • trdebunked

     @trdebunked Okay, basically, what you're saying is that even if a fanfic author is given an automatic permission to write a derivative work, it still is fan fiction?

     My question then is, when is fiction a fanfic and when it is not?

     Where do we draw the line?

     Scenario #1: Author A dedicated their story to the Public Domain. Is it fan fiction if Author B uses that Public Domain work?

     Scenario #2: Author D licensed their work under CC-By-SA. Author E wrote a derivative of that work, also of course under CC-By-SA. Is Author E's work considered a fanfic?

     Scenario #3: If Author E's work is considered fanfic (based on Scenario #2), and Author D reused materials from Author E's work, is Author D's work also a fanfic even though D was the original author of that “world”?

   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 03:53:27 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone im just saying that youre confusing permission to reuse a work with approval of the result. you and i are both fans of free licensing, if you delve into the legal wording of cc you can tell that these are two different things.

     theyre actually always two different things. the cc licenses tend to be explicit about it- the same applies to all licenses.

     did we just lose the ability to create steamboat willie fanfics?

   • Embed this notice
     Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦 (mcepl@floss.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 03:56:20 JST Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     @youronlyone That’s silly … say it to all those Pride & Prejudice fanfiction writers. Yes, they include P. D. James (“Death Comes to Pemberley” https://youtu.be/vGM-TWAbJHg) and many other very distinguished writers, but the community is otherwise undistinguishable from the HP one, for example. And yes, more stories are on Amazon, because they can. Still not enough difference to others.

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     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 04:06:45 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     • Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦

     @mcepl Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice is in the Public Domain, so of course anyone is free to reuse/build upon/create a derivative of the original material; and yes, they can make a profit from their work based on a Public Domain work.

     The question is this: is it still fan fiction when they can do anything and everything they want because the work is in the Public Domain?

     When is a literary work a fan fiction?

     If a producer creates their own derivative of a Public Domain work into a TV series or a film, is it fan fiction?

     If that TV series or film is not considered as fan fiction, then why are the works of other authors labelled as fan fiction?

     Or say, an author was able to publish their derivative work, sold print copies of it. Since that work is based on someone else's work, is it fan fiction or not?

     If it is fan fiction, then you're saying that any work that was not written by the original author is fan fiction?

     It means that, all the Star Trek books and productions which were not made/written by Gene Roddenberry, are fanfics?

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     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 07:05:49 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     • trdebunked

     @trdebunked

     > maybe, not a fanfic when the author gives SPECIFIC approval before release

     Interesting view that it has to be specifically stated instead of it the norm.

     I mean, for example, any work I release in the PD, By, or By-SA, I don't see the need to state any derivative work is not a fanfic; for me, it is understood by default.

     In any case, I'm not saying how view things is incorrect or invalid. I do appreciate sharing it, different perspectives are good. ^_^

     By the way, I got curious how the #Wikipedia community defines #fanfiction

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction

     What's your take on it?

   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 07:05:50 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • trdebunked

     @youronlyone @trdebunked

     > even if a fanfic author is given an automatic permission to write a derivative work, it still is fan fiction?

     very simply. legal permission does not count as approval of the work, its only permitted- as distinct as allowing a plumber entry and calling them a friend.

     > when is fiction a fanfic and when it is not?

     maybe, not a fanfic when the author gives SPECIFIC approval before release. written w/ only blanket permission (license) isnt approving the specific work.

     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 07:06:55 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone

     to NOT be ff itd have to be a traditional collaboration. if two people BOTH decide to work on something together, for example you & cory doctorow write a book together based on 1 of his novels- thats not a ff even though you didnt create the world.

     if you create something based on his world but just have a license, still ff. if you dont have a license, still ff.

     if he creates something based on HIS world but YOUR deriv, harder to say. imo not, or less ff- you could argue it is.

     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 07:07:14 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone to sum up:

     unlicensed deriv: ff

     licensed but not
     SPECIFICALLY approved: ff

     author reads ff after its public and likes it: still ff

     author reads before release and approves it: MAYBE not/less ff but hard to say

     author uses own world based on your deriv of it? maybe not/less ff, hard to say / depends?

     2nd author bases on public domain: ff- BUT, large mainstream works/disney arent called fanfic usually

     regardless, i dont think copyright/licence is what determines fanfic status.

   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 07:28:15 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone

     > specifically stated instead of it the norm.

     > the need to state any derivative work is not a fanfic

     by default the authors opinion has no bearing on this. if an author somehow blessed the work as "canon" like the council of nicea, itd be a rare exception. ff as a rule ignores the approval of authors entirely.

     what defines fanfic IS the norm, the custom, rather than law. what constitutes a hot fudge sundae depends not on licenses but the things people typically make it with.

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     Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (youronlyone@c.im)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 08:03:11 JST Yohan Yukiya Seseㆍ사요한・謝雪矢

     in reply to

     • trdebunked

     @trdebunked I think, yes, the safest is to make it clear on the original author's side regarding the world they created.

     If for them everything else not written by them, or “approved” by them, is a fanfic, then it is a fanfic. If they say they are not, then they are not.

     The tricky part now is, for PD works where the author already passed away.

     I think, in this case, if the author of the derivative work says that what they've written is fanfiction, then it is. It will cover what was suggested by another user, re: the #fanfic community of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, they call their works fan fiction.

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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 10-Jan-2024 08:03:12 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     @youronlyone

     > What's your take on it?

     i think wikipedia appears to support your original position first:

     > The author uses copyrighted characters, settings, or other intellectual properties

     but supports the points i try to make here:

     > Fan fiction can be based on any fictional (and occasional non-fictional) subject.

     that implies worlds no longer restricted by copyright.

     > It may infringe on the original author's copyright

     implies it still may be fanfic if pd or free-licensed.