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   Sam Whited (sam@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:01 JST Sam Whited

   You know, I always recommend Bosch e-bike systems to people, but I think I'm going to stop. Their newest system is so laden with DRM that I can't actually update anything even though I'm one of the certified technicians who's supposed to be able to do so even according to their evil DRM scheme. It's been literally months since I got certified and I still can't get access on my stupid DRM account. Seriously, just don't buy Bosch motors.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Aral Balkan repeated this.
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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:53 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @sam "computer programs either work or they don't"(firmware is software) is a weird statement because it's never that black and white. it's really just like any other program, albeit in a more limited context..
     
     the primary motivations of big manufacturers might not be good(we both agree there) but anyone working on their own devices also flashes new firmware all the time to microcontrollers as they find a deficiency/bug in it over time or whatever. controlling e-bike motors/batteries is not exactly that easy, and there's also the display etc stuff.. all of it is "updatable firmware".
     
     nobody complains about this stuff when it's "open hardware" projects creating it (i.e. i have a keyboard with a flashable chip that has firmware if i want to remap the keys or make it do anything else, there's even a display), but for some reason we complain when it's on something even more complicated?
     
     it's better than the case of it being non-updatable, and locked to a set of bugs forever. the issue is manufacturers abuse it, drm it, ... not that these interfaces to hardware have a way for you to update it somehow, or that they even /do/ get updated.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:54 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • indentation consulting services

     @psykose @sam But either the firmware works or it doesn't. There are no reasonable corner cases for it to be encountering, like malformed API requests from potential attackers, because it shouldn't have any interface surface like that.

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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:55 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @sam they have firmware because they have microcontrollers and everything with firmware needs an update mechanism generally, nothing weird there at all
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:56 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @sam It's so bonkers idiotic that eBikes have/need "updates".

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     Sam Whited (sam@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:58:58 JST Sam Whited

     in reply to

     On an unrelated note, if anyone wants to start an illegal open source project with a friend of mine who's definitely not me to patch Bosch's stupid executable to not require login and then distribute it illegally on the internet LMK and I'll put you in touch with someone who just wants to be able to update e-bikes.

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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:59:44 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • indentation consulting services
     @dalias @sam in the words of skarnet.. "the problem.. is Capitalism.. (refuses to elaborate)" :D
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     indentation consulting services (psykose@donotsta.re)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 06:59:45 JST indentation consulting services

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • indentation consulting services
     @dalias @sam (sometimes people retort to the latter with "you could create a pure electromechanical system with no software in it", but that is really impossible these days with modern motors and batteries.. or so people working with it tell me)