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   T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll: (theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:42 JST T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll:

   • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
   • divVerent
   @enigmatico @divVerent
   its logical reasoning to think through this.
   you dont need real data to make an educated guess
   
   and what isnt reported are armed crimes stopped by the presence of civilian gun ownership.
   Get me that data (and from a trustworthy source) and then you can start making an argument.
   
   again, you are also basing your arguments on hypotheticals since we dont have any data that proves that gun control stops armed crime (other than media outlets crying about how thats the only solution since they get their pockets lined)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:36 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @theorytoe @enigmatico America has always been two countries in a trenchcoat. It's just that prior to ideological subversion (Bezmenov) the two counties were somewhat compatible enough to see the other side as humans.
     
     the liberal world order (Bidens own words) doesn't. they declare themselves tolerant and then sort everyone they don't like as somehow not human; as you can see by how everyone they don't like is declared a human rights abuser.
     
     the abortion debate is fundamentally one about what age does it become murder to kill a human and you see this model of rhetoric magnified intensely.
     
     I dont support gun control anymore because the UN wants it and anything billionaire elites want is probably bad for me, since nobody becomes a billionaire by being a good person.
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     divVerent (divverent@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:37 JST divVerent

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     @theorytoe @enigmatico Yeah, that's another problem. Distrust in government in general and police in particular also raises both gun ownership AND crime (even crime against "civilians", not just anti-government crime).
     
     And the US have been particularly bad at this, with being so extremely divided that every American considers half their own country nazi satan worshippers. This too should never have happened, but people should instead have learned to cooperate. This sadly won't end well.
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     T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll: (theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:38 JST T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll:

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico
     and being that I see police forces being use to opress people more than stop crime you would think people would take it into their own hands and keep themselves safe
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     divVerent (divverent@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:39 JST divVerent

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     @theorytoe @enigmatico Yeah. This is also why most people would NOT want to eradicate all guns, but at least want the police and military to have them.
     
     The problem is - once we accept that, those guns are gonna get stolen or sold on the black market for sure - from the cops, from the manufacturer, in transit, etc.
     
     So we just gave criminals guns by arming the police. Even if we assumed all cops had good intentions.
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     T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll: (theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:40 JST T man :sex: :puffgiga: :puffpowerroll:

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico
     Well obviously if you expunge how to make guns and their presencd from society you wont have gun crime.
     
     But that doesnt mean violent crime wont lower, because if people want to kill, they will kill no matter the weapon they have available
     
     im more considering the fact of stopping an assailant because if a shooter is incapacitated or dead, they cant kill more people
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     divVerent (divverent@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:23:41 JST divVerent

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     @theorytoe @enigmatico Well, _in the limit_ gun control does stop armed crime. If one could eradicate all guns from the world, and also all knowledge about how to build them - then there's no more gun violence.
     
     But the more interesting question is, would there be _more_ or _less_ total violence then? More or less murders?
     
     Cain needed just a rock to kill Abel. David however shot Goliath - probably because as a felon Goliath couldn't own a slingshot ;)
     
     However, the practical problem is that one can't just do that. Any measure of gun control favors criminals first, as they're the ones least impacted by any bans. They're on the run already, after all...
     
     So in this imperfect world, the main question where people differ is, should civilians own guns, or should we have so high police presence that crime is actually stopped before anyone dies? IMHO both are valid extremes, and most countries pick an option somewhere in the middle. No option is really perfect.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:27:20 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico @theorytoe I'm not going to debate the other thing I'm just bringing it up as an example of how they literally sidestep an argument by just declaring babies "not people", villainize tbe half of the country thst says they are, with the discourse so skewed as to show the halves of America are really not even communicating to one another at tbis stage.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:29:14 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico @theorytoe to that end we have really bizzare politics like wanting to both ban guns from citizens while defunding police so the civilians have...
     
     No protection at all?
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:54:02 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico @theorytoe there is a line in one of their armament papers about "civilian ownership of firearms threatens the power monopoly of the state"
     
     which is the whole point of why the USA is the only country in the world that said you *will* have guns. literally we put it there because tyrants always come to disarm free men.
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     divVerent (divverent@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:54:04 JST divVerent

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     @icedquinn @enigmatico @theorytoe Sorry, the UN are your argument against gun control? That seems weak. The Useless Nations. The highest power they have is sending strongly worded letters, and even that they can't do because whoever they want to address it to has veto right.
     
     The UN are just plain useless. Ignoring them is the only logical action.
     
     (Oh, and no need to pay them any money)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 23:59:48 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico @theorytoe there's writing from contemporary times that the amendment really does mean the right and means to execute the government when it inevitably turns against the citizens.
     
     they knew it would because they always have, and even the firewalls they installed which were unprecedented at the time were presumed to fail. Which they have.
     
     It's not so much that owning a recreational nuke is itself a good idea. It isn't. It's that licensing boards can't be trusted as all institutions become weaponized and trust in the empire falls to zero while they collapse.
     
     We were also not supposed to have a standing army either. :blobcathuh: let alone the largest one in the world.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 23-Dec-2023 00:03:24 JST iced depresso

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     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @bonifartius @theorytoe @divVerent @enigmatico the state does not have to be criminal by definition. the divine right of the state actually comes from food distribution.
     
     when the population is too numerous for foragers they need active management of the food supply. this means industrial processes need coordinated and bread needs to be distributed. The word Lord literally comes from Bread Lord or he who distributed the loaf (this is also where "give us this day our daily bread" is referencing)
     
     the problem is that power magnifies and so condensing authority in to a small position greatly arms sociopaths; while decent people don't even conceive of ways to abuse bread distribution.
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     :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 23-Dec-2023 00:03:25 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent

     @icedquinn @theorytoe @divVerent @enigmatico i much more fear the state than my fellow men. the overwhelminh majority isn't criminal, the state has to be by definition.

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 23-Dec-2023 00:04:06 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     • divVerent
     @divVerent @enigmatico @theorytoe the USA is about consent of the governed, not a power monopoly. Europe is deep in to Hobbs but we weren't. Lot of people don't understand that.
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     divVerent (divverent@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 23-Dec-2023 00:04:07 JST divVerent

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • 【Ξｎｉｇｍａｔｉｃｏ】:misskey:
     @icedquinn @enigmatico @theorytoe To have a power monopoly of the state, the state needs to be trustworthy. Trust must be earned. And they are not even trying.