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   Jef Poskanzer :batman: (jef@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 01:25:51 JST Jef Poskanzer :batman:

   • Thomas 🔭🕹️

   @thomasfuchs They're not going to repent, they're going to double down.

   • Embed this notice
     John Cormier (johncormier@mstdn.ca)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:27:43 JST John Cormier

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs having done this with select family members at various points in our collective descent to madness, can confirm it does not work to change behaviours or beliefs. However, it does provide oneself with a small measure of sanity in an insane world, which is invaluable IMHO.

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     Andrew Jorgensen (ajorg@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:29:07 JST Andrew Jorgensen

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs it sounds a lot less effective than seeking to understand them, loving them, and helping them see the harm they're doing.

     Shunning is generally considered abusive. A form of bullying. Certainly not the moral high ground.

   • Embed this notice
     Andrew Jorgensen (ajorg@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:29:08 JST Andrew Jorgensen

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs there doesn't seem to be a lot of scientific evidence for it's effectiveness, though there's a lot of evidence for the harm it does.

     There's also some evidence that it damages those who practice it.

     It seems to me that for it to be effective, the shunned would need to not have another social group to retreat to, where they'd be accepted and even healed of the damage. They'd also need to deeply value the connection being broken.

   • Embed this notice
     Andrew Jorgensen (ajorg@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:29:09 JST Andrew Jorgensen

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs has it ever worked?

   • Embed this notice
     jz.tusk (jztusk@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:30:54 JST jz.tusk

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs @jef

     To me, shunning and ostracizing means you refuse to have any more interaction with them.

     And you've got instances where you've done that, and then the person has changed, and gotten back in contact with you?

     I'd love to hear the details, because I'd have thought this very unlikely.

   • Embed this notice
     John Cormier (johncormier@mstdn.ca)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:36:07 JST John Cormier

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs my partner and I have spent an absurd amount of time thinking about this problem, and have never managed to come up with anything that actually works. It is, I believe, one of the grand problems of our time.

   • Embed this notice
     John Cormier (johncormier@mstdn.ca)'s status on Monday, 18-Dec-2023 02:56:57 JST John Cormier

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs it’s far from ideal to have to cut out close persons from our lives. In my mind, I reasoned that they would notice our pulling back and would seek to understand our position and/or find ways around our differences. I was wrong.