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1. Embed this notice
   Anil Dash (anildash@me.dm)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:24:39 JST Anil Dash

   Reposting this from Threads, as people there were asking why some mastodon admins were defederating, and many there found it inexplicable, or even petulant: The fediverse (and all open systems) are about giving people choices, and giving communities power. Being able to block Facebook/Meta from connecting is a *demonstration* of that power …

   • Tim Chambers repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Anil Dash (anildash@me.dm)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:25:14 JST Anil Dash

     in reply to

     Personally, I’m glad Threads is on the fediverse & will be following Threads users here. I also think Meta has caused unforgivable harms. Being able to have communities outside of Meta’s reach makes the internet stronger and *better*, not worse. Meta should be asking themselves how they earn more trust in the world.

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:51:53 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     • simron

     @normis @anildash But they could do that already, right? Lots of public timelines here, and tons of Fedi hoovering projects have happened already.

   • Embed this notice
     simron (normis@mikrotik.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:51:56 JST simron

     in reply to

     @anildash I think the worry is not that Threads users will somehow spoil the Fediverse, but simply that this new interoperability announcement is a cover for something else. Like Meta using ActivityPub protocol to gather data on users, their discussion threads, build more profiles for ads etc. Why give them this data for free?

   • Embed this notice
     Michael (mhp@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:53:29 JST Michael

     in reply to

     @anildash
     > giving people choices, and giving communities power

     I think a lot of people have forgotten what this can look like, outside carefully managed "deckchairs on the Titanic" ones.

   • Embed this notice
     Anil Dash (anildash@me.dm)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 21:54:16 JST Anil Dash

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman
     • simron

     @roadriverrail @normis indeed. But sometimes people react to when a risk becomes visible, not just when the risk exists.

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 22:09:53 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     • simron

     @anildash @normis I'm just saying I feel there's got to be more to the story here, you know? There's a reason for Threads to do this and it's reasonable to assume it's not a good one for the non-Meta world, but the "data hoovering" story doesn't grab me.

     Some kind of embrace, extend, extinguish? Yeah, I'm still hearing that one out.

   • Embed this notice
     Anil Dash (anildash@me.dm)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:23:53 JST Anil Dash

     in reply to

     • Cam Hunt

     @camhunt I’m saying it’s good to block them if you want? I’m not sure how that contradicts your point.

   • Embed this notice
     Cam Hunt (camhunt@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:23:54 JST Cam Hunt

     in reply to

     @anildash This is really disingenuous, Anil. Meta hasn't caused unforgivable harm *past tense*, they continue today! Their regressive content moderation policies are incompatible with the community based safety of the fediverse. You should know better. Many servers have been defederated for far less. Framing this as a chance for them to do better is only possible with willful ignorance of the bigotry they enable *today*.

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:52:12 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     • Mighty Orbot

     @mighty_orbot As I mention elsewhere, I've already seen inside-the-Fedi hoovering and indexing done rather on the sly. I don't think they need to announce some big feature if that's the only point.

   • Embed this notice
     Mighty Orbot (mighty_orbot@retro.pizza)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:52:14 JST Mighty Orbot

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman

     @roadriverrail Meta can slurp up public timelines now, it’s true, but that could be blocked at the IP address anytime by individual admins or by an update to the Mastodon software as a whole.

     Having Fedi content posted directly to their Threads servers in real time is far more reliable.

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:53:43 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     • noodlejetski :verified_gay:
     • simron

     @noodlejetski @normis @anildash Does scraping the public web have a regulatory exposure?

   • Embed this notice
     noodlejetski :verified_gay: (noodlejetski@masto.ai)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:53:44 JST noodlejetski :verified_gay:

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman
     • simron

     @roadriverrail @normis @anildash straight up scraping would be difficult to explain to the regulators, but when you're federated? "hey they willingly connected with us and gave us all that data".

   • Embed this notice
     Polychrome :blabcat: (polychrome@poly.cybre.city)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 00:28:17 JST Polychrome :blabcat:

     in reply to

     • Konrad
     @konrad @anildash it means they haven't been paying attention to the news in the past few years.
   • Embed this notice
     Konrad (konrad@fedi.neuwirth.priv.at)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 00:28:18 JST Konrad

     in reply to

     @anildash Why should they ask themselves that? (I don't mean that in a teasing way – what would it do to their bottom line?)

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:39:55 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     • Jamon Bull
     • simron
     • RDN

     @rdnielsen @jamonbull @anildash @normis Yes, this is something I could imagine happening.

   • Embed this notice
     RDN (rdnielsen@mastodon.online)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:39:56 JST RDN

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman
     • Jamon Bull
     • simron

     @jamonbull @roadriverrail @anildash @normis It seems reasonable to assume that Threads' version of interoperability will be one-way, in an effort to increase Threads' user base at the expense of other fediverse instances. A reasonable counter is for fediverse admins and users to block Threads until interoperability is fully two-way.

   • Embed this notice
     Jamon Bull (jamonbull@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:39:57 JST Jamon Bull

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman
     • simron

     @roadriverrail @anildash @normis Meta sees the Fediverse as a potential threat. They quash threats early. E.g. Instagram and WhatsApp. They know it’ll be difficult to get Mastodon users to join them, so their plan is to make it all ‘interoperable’, AKA make 95% of the Fediverse Threads profiles. They’ll stop short of allowing Mastodon posts to be seen in Threads algorithmic feeds. This will entice a sufficient number of users to post from Threads accounts, thus slowing Fediverse instance growth.

   • Embed this notice
     Ulrich_the_Elder (ulrich_the_elder@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:46:20 JST Ulrich_the_Elder

     in reply to

     @anildash Cool story. Threads is owned by a person whom I personally believe is trying to make things worse for everyone but himself. SO fuck you.

   • Embed this notice
     Anil Dash (anildash@me.dm)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 05:46:20 JST Anil Dash

     in reply to

     • Ulrich_the_Elder

     @Ulrich_the_Elder do you think every person on that platform, including the many people of color who find various fediverse services in the mastodon world to be hostile communities, is not worth ever hearing from?

   • Embed this notice
     Brendan Jones (brendanjones@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 08:20:25 JST Brendan Jones

     in reply to

     • My camera shoots fascists

     @Mikal @anildash I’m not concerned about that, only about the fact that they’ll probably record every interaction I have with threads users and their posts. And given Meta have supposedly long kept “shadow profiles” of people who aren’t even using and opted in to their products, that might mean Meta would keep my interaction info and try to use it to serve me ads elsewhere (not on Mastodon, I don’t see how they’d inject ads here).

     I don’t know how well founded this fear is.

   • Embed this notice
     My camera shoots fascists (mikal@sfba.social)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 08:20:26 JST My camera shoots fascists

     in reply to

     @anildash

     So, maybe you can 'splain me something about the threads federation controversy.

     People act as if following someone on Threads will somehow subject their personal timeline to Meta's advertising and suggested (toxic) content. That seems… incorrect? What am I missing?

     If I follow a user on a Mastodon server or on Threads, I will only be seeing what they post or boost, not what their follows post and not ads or suggested posts that Meta injects into their timeline on their Threads account. Right?

     I see a lot of discussion here that seems to suggest that if a Mastodon user follows someone on Threads, Meta will be able to inject whatever content they want into your personal timeline here. Am I missing something?

     I understand there are plenty of reasons to not associate with Meta at all because it is such a toxic company that never, under any circumstances, has any of our best interests in mind. But here I'm just referring to the technical aspects that seem to confuse a lot of people (maybe me?).